[Driver] Vettel vs Webber: Round 2

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think that Vettel is probably the quicker of the two the moment.

I think it's fair to say that Vettel is currently the fastest driver in F1, not just the team. That said, i doubt that they are favouring him at this point of the season! Mark, being the type of guy that he is, wouldn't be happy if that were the case, rightfully so.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I think it's fair to say that Vettel is currently the fastest driver in F1, not just the team. That said, i doubt that they are favouring him at this point of the season! Mark, being the type of guy that he is, wouldn't be happy if that were the case, rightfully so.

I was thinking about this team this morning. Some weeks ago there was speculation that Kimi would be signed up for 2011. I really don't understand that logic. I believe Webber would trounce him, never mind Vettel. I honestly think the team that Red Bull have got, is on balance probably the best out there.

[Marbot]

If 'fastest' was all that was needed to be an F1 champ, then it's probably fair to say that Vettel would be most peoples choice. Fortunately, F1 requires drivers to be more than just 'fast'.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

I was thinking about this team this morning. Some weeks ago there was speculation that Kimi would be signed up for 2011. I really don't understand that logic. I believe Webber would trounce him, never mind Vettel. I honestly think the team that Red Bull have got, is on balance probably the best out there.

Certainly it is. Both drivers are well fit in the team, and they need continuity. Bringing Kimi wouldn't make any sense.

[OZ_HCR32]

So, Webber into Turn 1 in ... 4th? 2nd....Heaven forbid 1st? Vettel is due to make a mistake soon isnt he...he has been supreme with speed and being error free

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

and being error free

Unlike his car.

As for the first corner. Alonso to get a great start, only for his engine and gearbox to fail just before turn one. Vettel and Webber will be left only to wonder whose wheel gun will jam in the pit stops after Webber does his 'after you Claude' impression. Hamilton will receive a 10 second penalty for 'driver most likely to receive 10 second penalty' infraction. Button will get overtaken by everyone going into the first corner, but still manage to finish ahead of them all without actually overtaking anyone (how does he do that?)

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Marbot

If 'fastest' was all that was needed to be an F1 champ, then it's probably fair to say that Vettel would be most peoples choice. Fortunately, F1 requires drivers to be more than just 'fast'.

Like a car that ran problem free you mean? Surely it would be 3 from 3 if that was the case, and that, is the making of a champion.

[rocketracer]

that vettel kid continues to amaze me.

i really thought webber had him covered with his final lap, as Mark had been the quicker of the 2 in the previous practise and quali sessions. Seb was slightly down on the lap through the middle sector as well. But then pulls it out for the final sector to go clear by quite a margin and take the pole.

Seb just seems to have that ability of pulling something out when it's stacked against him. Immensely impressive.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

that vettel kid continues to amaze me.

i really thought webber had him covered with his final lap, as Mark had been the quicker of the 2 in the previous practise and quali sessions. Seb was slightly down on the lap through the middle sector as well. But then pulls it out for the final sector to go clear by quite a margin and take the pole.

Seb just seems to have that ability of pulling something out when it's stacked against him. Immensely impressive.

I read an exclusive interview he made with a friend of mine, and you can tell that he's very focused to become WDC, and certainly one of the greats.
But he's still a kid at heart, when he tells that he used to have a poster of TGF in his room but ultimately switched to naked women posters...
Way to go Vet ! (http://blogs.estadao.com.br/livio-or...mulher-pelada/)

Vettel to Ferrari or Macs in the future...

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Vettel to Ferrari or Macs in the future...

I do like him, something very refreshing about him.
I'd agree with move to Ferrari, he's already been quoted as saying that he wouldn't be able to turn down a move there.
Mac, I can't see happening, Mercedes is the official German team now, and whilst I don't think Mercedes would handicap Mclaren, they are a customer team only till 2015.

Also, whilst Lewis "asked" the team to get Button, I seriously doubt he would want to be paired with Vettel.
The British media got caught up in the hype of Lewis in 07/08 and calling him the greatest of all time etc etc. I think Vettel would beat him comfortably. Just seems more in control.

The casual F1 observer sees Hamilton winning almost straight away and the "Sun" tabloid says he's best...
I saw a gifted racer being handed the keys to the best or second best car on the grid. Where was his F1 apprenticeship? Is it any surprise he gets resentment from many F1 fans.

How Lewis gets on over the next generation will be fascinating, but I would put money on Vettel's career stats being more impressive than Hamiltons.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Some weeks ago there was speculation that Kimi would be signed up for 2011. I really don't understand that logic. I believe Webber would trounce him, never mind Vettel.

Whilst I agree that it'd be best for RBR to retain it's current line-up and not rock the boat I fail to see how you've reached the conclusion that Webber would trounce Raikkonen. I've seen nothing in their respective careers to suggest that Webber is as good as Kimi, let alone better.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Also, whilst Lewis "asked" the team to get Button, I seriously doubt he would want to be paired with Vettel.
The British media got caught up in the hype of Lewis in 07/08 and calling him the greatest of all time etc etc. I think Vettel would beat him comfortably. Just seems more in control.

Again I fail to see how you've reach the conclusion that Vettel would comfortably beat Hamilton. The German is obviously a superstar, but on balance I'd have to say that Hamilton has impressed me more.

If Alonso can't even beat Lewis comfortably, I doubt anyone else could.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

If Alonso can't even beat Lewis comfortably, I doubt anyone else could.

Button maybe?

[OZ_HCR32]

Well, if it had stayed dry Webz was a chance today...but neither driver did too well after 56 laps of bouncing off other cars and their trip to the Casino

[Another Bob]

It was a bit of an Ouch day for the pair of them, particularly Mark, that first change to wets killed it, from the sidelines it looked like the drivers, or the team engineers, or both, either panicked or thought they were being clever and getting ahead of the rest.

Hind sight is always a fabulous thing but if Mark had held his bottle like Button and not changed to wets in that first stint he had a odds on chance of winning the race.

[safc_fan89]

Originally Posted by Another Bob

It was a bit of an Ouch day for the pair of them, particularly Mark, that first change to wets killed it, from the sidelines it looked like the drivers, or the team engineers, or both, either panicked or thought they were being clever and getting ahead of the rest.

Hind sight is always a fabulous thing but if Mark had held his bottle like Button and not changed to wets in that first stint he had a odds on chance of winning the race.

You could also say that Alonso would have been odds-on to win the race had he pressed the throttle half a second later. In that race you could use hindsight for just about every driver. If you want to win races you need to make the right calls. Webber/Red Bull never seem to.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

Button maybe?

Don't go there!

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Whilst I agree that it'd be best for RBR to retain it's current line-up and not rock the boat I fail to see how you've reached the conclusion that Webber would trounce Raikkonen. I've seen nothing in their respective careers to suggest that Webber is as good as Kimi, let alone better.

Funnily enough, it's called opinion, and I personally don't rate Kimi.
Regarding Alonso/ Lewis, I have no doubt that subject has been exhausted on these forums over the years. Whatever happened in 2007, Lewis always had Ron's favourtism on his side. China 2007, Ron "we were racing Alonso" Whoops big boo boo..
Isn't it interesting that now Whitmarsh is fully in control, and Lewis has a team-mate of comparable skill, he's making mistakes?
Whether it's him missing his fathers influence, or Button proving a worthier opponent than Heikki, currently Button is performing better. That's not to say it will continue like this, but I, personally, have had to re-evaluate my opinion of Button. Significant that Button has won in changeable conditions, but either way he's been impressing me.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Funnily enough, it's called opinion...

And funnily enough, this is called a discussion forum. You should be able to meet a polite enquiry with something other than condescension.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Funnily enough, it's called opinion, and I personally don't rate Kimi.

Kimi is the best F1 driver outside F1, now beat that !

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Regarding Alonso/ Lewis, I have no doubt that subject has been exhausted on these forums over the years. Whatever happened in 2007, Lewis always had Ron's favourtism on his side. China 2007, Ron "we were racing Alonso" Whoops big boo boo..

After all Teflonso did in McLaren, it was not exactly favouritism. Guess what is starting to happen now at Ferrari with that last pit in China... any similarity is not coincidence.

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Isn't it interesting that now Whitmarsh is fully in control, and Lewis has a team-mate of comparable skill, he's making mistakes?
Whether it's him missing his fathers influence, or Button proving a worthier opponent than Heikki, currently Button is performing better. That's not to say it will continue like this, but I, personally, have had to re-evaluate my opinion of Button. Significant that Button has won in changeable conditions, but either way he's been impressing me.

So far, IMHO, Hamilton is the best driver of the season. Mistakes ? Who doesn't make mistakes ? What I see is that Hamilton is very confident and he's charging for WDC. Button is a nice person/driver, hardly a trouble for the team - unlike Teflonso. And Button is driving ala Prost, that will be a nice fight to watch... a repeat of Senna vs Prost, at least in the track.

[Mr V]

Seb cocked up the start and got overtaken by Mark, plus Mark had the better set up for the conditions yet Seb still finished ahead.

[herowassenna]

Good points Bononi, but I remember drivers over the years, WDC and winners, who when under pressure made glaring mistakes that never happened when they were cruising. Well, with the exception of Senna, Monaco 1988.
MSC obviously handled pressure badly, He had to tie up the championship before the final race otherwise he always succumbed to the pressure. Adelaide 94, Jerez 97, Suzuka 98
Hamilton's outburst in Australia showed frustration, and whilst I admire his racing skills, I feel he's making more mistakes than he normally would. Maybe thats his youth, maybe he feels pressured by his team-mate.
Personally I believe he would be driving more relaxed if Heikki was still in the other Macca.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

...I feel he's making more mistakes than he normally would. Maybe thats his youth, maybe he feels pressured by his team-mate.
Personally I believe he would be driving more relaxed if Heikki was still in the other Macca.

Four races so far... I would give more races, specially now that Europe races will start, only then, I would think if he's under pressure by his team mate performances. Certainly 2 wins against none is some sort of pressure, but there are many races to come, and the system points are leaving the competition more open.

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by Another Bob

It was a bit of an Ouch day for the pair of them, particularly Mark, that first change to wets killed it, from the sidelines it looked like the drivers, or the team engineers, or both, either panicked or thought they were being clever and getting ahead of the rest.

Hind sight is always a fabulous thing but if Mark had held his bottle like Button and not changed to wets in that first stint he had a odds on chance of winning the race.

it's funny the two constrasts - everything Button does turns to gold at the moment, and conversely, RBR guys cant seem to make a competent decision, and are constantly battling their way back up to where they started.

This race was the complete opposite to Melbourne, where the RBR drivers were the only ones to stay out on inters when the change to slicks turned out to be the better decision.

And this time, they were one of the first to make the tyre change, only for staying out to prove to be the better option...

I dont know how much is down to the drivers and how much is the team data / strategy, but there would be huge pressure to start getting these calls right, as it is hurting them severely at this early stage in both championships.

[Mr V]

Boing

In FP3 Seb just went out and did a lap 7/10ths faster than anyone else, including Mark. Webber looked totally off/dejected.