WEC Race WEC 2013 Round 2: Spa-Francorchamps - Page 7

Holt · 3 May 2013, 18:13 (Ref:3242281)

4 lap average of the new cars

2:00.236 - R18 Longtail (Le Mans aero)
2:00.947 - TS030 2013 (Le Mans aero)

So Toyota is .711 behind

2 years ago I believe Peugeot was behinnd in qualifying and Audi swept the first 3 spots, but Peugeot ended up finishing 1-2. So anything can happen

gwyllion · 3 May 2013, 18:17 (Ref:3242283)

If you look at ultimate pace, the difference is bit bigger:

Audi #3: 1:58.934
Toyota #7: 2:00.757

BTW the long runs in practice 2 give an indication of the stint length:

Audi #3: 20 laps
Toyota #7: 22 laps
Toyota #8: 21 laps

TF110 · 3 May 2013, 18:18 (Ref:3242284)

Right. And you saw the fuel economy was worse for the Audis. Toyota was able to go two laps further in a stint. So you have to take that into consideration here. Fastest laps are good in qualifying, but the race is another story. Also the #7 car was fastest on the speed traps. I think the race will be a lot closer than what people are expecting.

Holt · 3 May 2013, 18:19 (Ref:3242285)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

If you look at ultimate pace, the difference is bit bigger:

Audi #3: 1:58.934
Toyota #7: 2:00.757

Oh boy. Well, the GT battle at Le Mans should be much better then last year.

Beryl · 3 May 2013, 18:21 (Ref:3242287)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holt

2 years ago I believe Peugeot was behinnd in qualifying and Audi swept the first 3 spots, but Peugeot ended up finishing 1-2. So anything can happen

Peugeot were behind in qualifying because they left it late and didn't get a chance to do fast laps because of a red flag, not because they were clearly slower like Toyota is.

gwyllion · 3 May 2013, 18:22 (Ref:3242288)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Also the #7 car was fastest on the speed traps.

Not during the two practice sessions:

Audi #3: 307.7 km/h
Toyota #7: 302.5 km/h
Audi #2: 300.0 km/h
Audi #1: 299.2 km/h
Toyota #8: 295.1 km/h

source: http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...actice%202.PDF

zanfo zanfagni · 3 May 2013, 18:24 (Ref:3242289)

Bad and Inaccurate comparison. During spa 2011 qualifying, peugeot sport did a strategy mistake that resulted in a disastrous qualifying, it was not 908 or drivers fault. The pace difference is clear. As the 2012 ts030 was a better car than 2012 r18 e-tron; 2013 r18 e-tron is a better car than 2013 ts030. Not to mention that audi improved almost each aspect of the car: better turbo, better hybrid system, air hybrid introduced and disallowed by fia, blown diffuser. Toyota did not even develope a sprint package for the 2013 ts030. Watching the best speeds, toyota has also lost his top speed advantage. For LM package i mean.

TF110 · 3 May 2013, 18:24 (Ref:3242290)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holt

Oh boy. Well, the GT battle at Le Mans should be much better then last year.

Toyotas car is faster on the straights (slightly) here at Spa, that will carry over to Le Mans with greater effect with its 5 straights reaching 300kmh+.

gwyllion · 3 May 2013, 18:27 (Ref:3242293)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyotas car is faster on the straights (slightly) here at Spa, that will carry over to Le Mans with greater effect with its 5 straights reaching 300kmh+.

No they are not

You have to compare the cars that run in a similar aero configuration:

high downforce: 300 km/h for Audi #1/#2 vs 295 km/h Toyota #8
low drag: 308 km/h for Audi #3 vs 303 km/h for Toyota #1

Eryk03 · 3 May 2013, 18:28 (Ref:3242294)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Right. And you saw the fuel economy was worse for the Audis. Toyota was able to go two laps further in a stint. So you have to take that into consideration here. Fastest laps are good in qualifying, but the race is another story. Also the #7 car was fastest on the speed traps. I think the race will be a lot closer than what people are expecting.

There will be as close as at Silverstone

TF110 · 3 May 2013, 18:31 (Ref:3242297)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Not during the two practice sessions:

Audi #3: 307.7 km/h
Toyota #7: 302.5 km/h
Audi #2: 300.0 km/h
Audi #1: 299.2 km/h
Toyota #8: 295.1 km/h

source: http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...actice%202.PDF

Qualifying is not practice. Qualifying is where they set their fastest laps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

Bad and Inaccurate comparison. During spa 2011 qualifying, peugeot sport did a strategy mistake that resulted in a disastrous qualifying, it was not 908 or drivers fault. The pace difference is clear. As the 2012 ts030 was a better car than 2012 r18 e-tron; 2013 r18 e-tron is a better car than 2013 ts030. Not to mention that audi improved almost each aspect of the car: better turbo, better hybrid system, air hybrid introduced and disallowed by fia, blown diffuser. Toyota did not even develope a sprint package for the 2013 ts030. Watching the best speeds, toyota has also lost his top speed advantage.

We should wait until after the race... Toyotas 2013 car has its first race here. Doesn't seem like they are at 100% yet. For all we know Toyota could be holding back to get favorable BOP for Le Mans. We don't know. Doesn't look like exhaust blowing is being used by them either.

TF110 · 3 May 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3242298)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

No they are not

You have to compare the cars that run in a similar aero configuration:

high downforce: 300 km/h for Audi #1/#2 vs 295 km/h Toyota #8
low drag: 308 km/h for Audi #3 vs 303 km/h for Toyota #1

Yet in qualifying in equal conditions Toyota was said to be faster. So you taking practice speeds or speeds where they are in actual competition?

Eryk03 · 3 May 2013, 18:34 (Ref:3242300)

@TF110 You don't promising too much for yourself... it is just a toyota.

MihokS5 · 3 May 2013, 18:34 (Ref:3242301)

And so begins TF110s campaign. I was wondering why he was so quiet today when Toyota wasn't on top!

Velociraptor · 3 May 2013, 18:35 (Ref:3242302)

Almost 2 s difference in fastestlaps between Audi and Toyota... No chance, Toyota might as well switch focus on the 2014 car, if they'll even compete next year.

zanfo zanfagni · 3 May 2013, 18:38 (Ref:3242304)

Gwyllion is making an easy statment. LT r18 (the one that will be used at le mans) has an higher top speed of the ts030 in low drag configuration as we can see is running this week end. In equal setting, the r18 has an higher top speed that is a big factor at le mans. 340KM/h in my opinion is the goal.
The #7 2013 ts030 has a best top speed of the #1 and #2 r18 e-tron in high downforce configuration. That's true, but what the deal to be a bit faster in the first sector and be too much slower in the second one? laptime is not given only by the top speed.

MyNameIsNigel · 3 May 2013, 18:40 (Ref:3242306)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velociraptor

sandbagging?

Are they going to sandbag during the race as well ???

Livininthinair · 3 May 2013, 18:40 (Ref:3242307)

Will there be a performance adjustment prior to LeMans dependent on Spa results?

...my question being - what would be the point of sandbagging?

vincegail · 3 May 2013, 18:42 (Ref:3242309)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Are they going to sandbag during the race as well ???

If you're going to do it, might as well do it properly!

MyNameIsNigel · 3 May 2013, 18:43 (Ref:3242310)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

Will there be a performance adjustment prior to LeMans dependent on Spa results?

Looking at how close the Rebellion's are to the frontrunners, I do not see why there should be any performance adjustment.

zanfo zanfagni · 3 May 2013, 18:44 (Ref:3242311)

May be. But like in 2011 the adjustments will be favourable only for private lmp1 (something like -10kg). Toyota could forget to receive some waiver. We are not talking about 911.

MyNameIsNigel · 3 May 2013, 18:46 (Ref:3242312)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

...my question being - what would be the point of sandbagging?

Sandbagging would be pointless under the present circumstances IMHO

TF110 · 3 May 2013, 18:46 (Ref:3242315)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eryk03

@TF110 You don't promising too much for yourself... it is just a toyota.

I dont understand your wording. Promise what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MihokS5

And so begins TF110s campaign. I was wondering why he was so quiet today when Toyota wasn't on top!

I was actually following the live timing. I was supposed to be posting? Wow, thats news to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

Gwyllion is making an easy statment. LT r18 (the one that will be used at le mans) has an higher top speed of the ts030 in low drag configuration as we can see is running this week end. In equal setting, the r18 has an higher top speed that is a big factor at le mans. 340KM/h in my opinion is the goal.
The #7 2013 ts030 has a best top speed of the #1 and #2 r18 e-tron in high downforce configuration. That's true, but what the deal to be a bit faster in the first sector and be too much slower in the second one? laptime is not given only by the top speed.

At LeMans top speed is a much greater asset than at Spa. This is only the first on track competition for the 2013 car. Writing them off is silly. It will be a good race, not just in lmp but GTE with the cars all so close.

gwyllion · 3 May 2013, 18:50 (Ref:3242320)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Yet in qualifying in equal conditions Toyota was said to be faster. So you taking practice speeds or speeds where they are in actual competition?

This is the average of the 3 fastest top speeds during qualifying:

Audi #1: 297.5 km/h
Audi #2: 295.1 km/h
Audi #3: 303.4 km/h
Toyota #7: 305.9 km/h
Toyota #8: 289.5 km/h

So Toyota trimmed down the downforce level of the #7 car for qualifying. And Audi ran with a bit more wing on the #3 car. No big deal.

Victor_RO · 3 May 2013, 18:51 (Ref:3242321)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

Will there be a performance adjustment prior to LeMans dependent on Spa results?

...my question being - what would be the point of sandbagging?

Yes, I believe that there is a scheduled LMP1 BoP adjustment between Spa and Le Mans.

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