IMSA Race TUSC Round 2: The Mobil 1 12 Hours of Sebring

[Matt]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

For reference, pole time this year of the AXR DP was a 1:51.9. That's nearly 8.5 seconds slower than the official track record set least year by the Audi R18 last year in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wjIQuKMdwI

Shows the difference between a LMP1 and a BOP'd DP/ACO LMP2 combo in the Prototype class. The Audi R18 had tons more downforce, more torque (diesel power, remember), somewhat more HP than a current DP, a more trick suspension system, huge tires and wheels front and rear and was a factory developed car. LMP2s and DPs have less power (LMP2s for sure have a lot less HP than the LMP1 Audi), significantly narrower wheels and tires, and are customer oriented cars.

Of course, the Audi running on Michelin tires designed for it that were 36/71cmx18in front and 37/71cmx18 rear, and 14.75x18 front and 14.5x18 rear wheels would alone give more grip than the spec Continental tires on 12.5x18 front and 13x18 rear wheels.

Shows how much a different animal that a 2013 factory LMP1 is from the more customer car oriented TUSCC Prototype class, and mind that the new Audi R18 in testing was turning the same lap times that the older car did last year in race trim in spite of narrower wheels and tires and a 4 inch narrow suspension track width.

Completely different creatures are the pace setters in Prototype this year vs last year.

I think the DP actually makes more horsepower than a current P1 car. I heard the R18 made 550hp in race trim, with the DP's close to 600.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

Z4 is lightweight, runs unrestricted and has a something like GT3 rear wing (if is the same used at daytona). All this helps a lot in first and second sector, I'm not surprised of the pole achieved. Strangely Bruni ran 1 second slower than last year pole (marked by him).

The BMW on pole is a GTD which were not here last year. It is a GT3 with TC, ABS and a lot of aero removed and the GTD spec wing - a very different car from the GTLM Z4s.

Overall single lap BOP seems very good in all the classes - all the front runners are pretty tightly grouped. Race BOP could still be different - knowledge tomorrow.

[CyberMotor]

Qualifying seems to be a good mix of the merging philosophies. It looks like BOP has reached a fair plateau. Let's hope the race is run like an endurance race. So far, so good.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Level 5 HPD ARX-03: 1:51.159

This year's pole speed is off that by about .8 of a second. DP's are less agile than the LMP2s and LMP2s ran on Michelin rubber last year (though they were just warmed over LMPC tires) vs the Conti tires this year.

And 2012 was even faster, Oak did a 1:50.467, that was with a WEC P2 though and I don't know if they were running different specs than the ALMS guys.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Matt

I think the DP actually makes more horsepower than a current P1 car. I heard the R18 made 550hp in race trim, with the DP's close to 600.

I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers for the R18 were higher than 550hp, the official figures for the Pug 908 were 700hp and after joining Toyota I remember Wurz saying it was actually closer to 800hp.

[belt driven]

In 2013, 5 P2s qualified with a 1.915 second spread.

In 2012 (+WEC), 10 P2s covered a 2.613 second spread with 3 ALMS grouped inside .53 seconds. Bigger budgets? Better track conditions?

In 2011, the top 3 P2s were spread over 7.065seconds. 4 cars' fastest race laps were only 3.029 seconds apart.

I think FL is a better performance indicator in a long race, but I don't expect a lot of consistency in the results because of all the new cars and new (or rusty) drivers.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Matt

I think the DP actually makes more horsepower than a current P1 car. I heard the R18 made 550hp in race trim, with the DP's close to 600.

That's probably wrong, actually, since there's been good reason to believe that in LM trim that Audi were pushing nearly 600hp, and in sprint race trim, both Audi and Toyota were hovering at, if not over, 600hp for a 1000km/6 hour sprint race.

Also, the Audi is probably draggier than a DP due to increased downforce, but at Sebring last year they were going over 175mph down the back straight (the 2011 R18s that ran Sebring in '12 were topping out at almost 175, and those had less power than the cars that Audi brought to Sebring last year), but I wouldn't be surprised if the R18's top speed in '13 was superior to that of a DP.

For sure, the R18 e-tron quattro could out accelerate a DP due to lighter weight, the input from the hybrid system, and the diesel engine having as much or more torque than a big block V8.

[JHamilton]

Just to let y'all know, it's really good in person. Cars are quick, great variety and a good show.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers for the R18 were higher than 550hp, the official figures for the Pug 908 were 700hp and after joining Toyota I remember Wurz saying it was actually closer to 800hp.

Yeah, but that was the old regs before they downsized.

[chernaudi]

Audi initially claimed 540 hp in 2011, then 510 in 2012, and 490 in '13. I think it's easy to believe faithfully that those numbers were pretty much BS, considerign that the '13 cars did carry more downforce than in '11 or '12, and those wide front wheels and tires, while giving tons of mechanical grip, also gave quite a bit of drag due to the wide front fenders.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yeah, but that was the old regs before they downsized.

Yeah I know that, I wasn't implying the R18 was making anywhere near 800hp, just that Audi probably wasn't releasing the actual figures for the car and that it was likely higher than 550hp.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

So is the Imsa safety team coming back? Watching the conti race, the old Imsa safety truck came out a few times,has a new paint job but it's the same truck.couldnt tell if its the same crew.i haven't read anything just wondering if it's back or just a sebring thing..

[TF110]

Originally Posted by nkoske

This is why I absolutely hate bop. No matter what happens, someone is going to complain the person at front has an advantage. How is any win real?

The top 6 cars are within 0.3 sec... yeah totally not fair. Cheaters.

How much closer could they possibly get? What results will make you think everything is fair? I know, every car should turn the exact same lap down to .001 sec... totally possible.

Do we really want this year to be like the AMR v. Corvette Racing GT1 year where bop was traded back and forth every race?

Porsche has been faster in every instance including Daytona and the tests between it and Sebring IMO that 1:58 was just a taste of what they can do. Theres no reason they need a weight or restrictor break. No, thats not fair imo, and I have nothing against Porsche nor any favorite in GT.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by wdave0

The BMW on pole is a GTD which were not here last year. It is a GT3 with TC, ABS and a lot of aero removed and the GTD spec wing - a very different car from the GTLM Z4s.

Overall single lap BOP seems very good in all the classes - all the front runners are pretty tightly grouped. Race BOP could still be different - knowledge tomorrow.

Indeed I was talking about the turner Z4 GTD... that is around 100kg lighter than 458, viper and R8LMS and runs unrestricted. If am I not wrong, TCS and ABS are not allowed in GTD class.
About audi power, mike mulsanne reported a poweroutput close to 600hp for both peugeot and audi in 2011 (at le mans 908 passed 340km/h at top speed trap, R18 was close to 340km/h however).
In 2012 ACO reduced restrictors and turbo pressure, and considering a lower top speed (around 325km/h) and the great fuel milliage at le mans, I think that the 2012 R18 lost a considerable amount of power.
In 2013 considering an overall higher downforce package, an higher top speed (>330km/h) and a worse fuel milliage compared to 2012, my bet is that R18 was not less than 550-560hp.
Actually 2014 DP power output should be in the range of 540-560hp for corvette DP, less for the riley ford and much less for the riley bmw. At least judging by the top speed marked at daytona.

[BudLightJaguar]

I'm really happy to see close competition in the prototype class between DP's and LMP2's. This is how it should be till the end of the season.
And as a Finn, I'm as well glad to see Markus Palttala's team on pole in the GTD.

[canamman]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Just to let y'all know, it's really good in person. Cars are quick, great variety and a good show.

That's what I thought at Daytona.

The reality of this series is not that bad albeit a good
Audi vs. Peugeot P1 fight would be nice.

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by canamman

Daytona.

Audi

Really off topic but...what would be the lap time if Tom Kristensen tested Audi R18 E-Tron Quattro at Daytona? 1,30ish?

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

Really off topic but...what would be the lap time if Tom Kristensen tested Audi R18 E-Tron Quattro at Daytona? 1,30ish?

Low 40's

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by canamman

That's what I thought at Daytona.

The reality of this series is not that bad albeit a good
Audi vs. Peugeot P1 fight would be nice.

What we are missing this year is Audi vs. Toyota vs. Porsche.

[canamman]

Yep. There is always WEC COTA I guess if you need that fix.

Not sure what a P1 Audi would do at Daytona.
Went down there thinking P2 's would blister the field
but learned otherwise going back to testing.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

Low 40's

LMP1 at Daytona in the low 1:40s? Maybe with a broken gearbox. With a Le Mans set-up they'd probably be in the 1:31-1:33 bracket. DPs are in the 1:38s now.

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

LMP1 at Daytona in the low 1:40s? Maybe with a broken gearbox. With a Le Mans set-up they'd probably be in the 1:31-1:33 bracket. DPs are in the 1:38s now.

Oops, misread the question.

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

LMP1 at Daytona in the low 1:40s? Maybe with a broken gearbox. With a Le Mans set-up they'd probably be in the 1:31-1:33 bracket. DPs are in the 1:38s now.

Yep, that's what I thought. P.J Jones clocked 1.33 with Eagle-Toyota in 1993. And tires, drivetrain etc. have improved since then.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

Yep, that's what I thought. P.J Jones clocked 1.33 with Eagle-Toyota in 1993. And tires, drivetrain etc. have improved since then.

Wasn't the track layout different back then though?

[Intimidator]

Shouldn't they be showing "trough the driver's eyes" right now?
yes they are : http://multimedia.netstorage.imsa.co.../index800.html