[BTCC] Oulton Park, 17/18 June 2023, Rounds 13/14/15

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

A testament to how well Sutton and Ingram have performed so far this season when you look at the relative strength of their cars:

But they're not strong! They have chocolate suspension! ?

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Yeah, some of his maneouvres have been pretty embarrassing this year.

At least he's trying?

[Bazz]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

My mistake. Yes, just realised.

Dude, can you please tone it down, your only contributions to this site of late are painful, limited to inflammatory niggly replies, fact correcting other posters, rooting through posters history and cryptic posts.

Yes I see the irony in me posting this but your posting style is too much.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Bazz

Dude, can you please tone it down, your only contributions to this site of late are painful, limited to inflammatory niggly replies, fact correcting other posters, rooting through posters history and cryptic posts.

Yes I see the irony in me posting this but your posting style is too much.

Might I humbly suggest that if you don't like crmalcoms' style that you then don't bother to read them; no one is gorcing you to do so. In his defence I have found that vast majority his posts, nearly 12,000 of them, to be informative plus many containing first class photos in many different threads throughout the forum, but more importantly they are virtually always factual.

[Mike Harte]

My son and I were at Oulton yesterday, and once I have watched the TV coverage that I recorded, I will post my thoughts on the day.

[Mike Harte]

Had a great day at Oulton yesterday, arriving at about 8.30 to find that there was already a very sizeable crown already in attendance. We settled down on the inside overlooking Knickerbrook and Hislopswhich was a great spot to be, giving us a view of the cars coming down from Dentons through Cascades and up towards Island and then coming back over down the hill to Hislops, etc.before going up the beginning of Clay Hill. In addition we had a slanted view of the big screen (which gave a slightly distorted vison of the cars) that was sort of directed towards Old Hall, so all in all a pretty good place to be.

Mention was made earlier in this or one of the other threads about problems leaving circuits. Yesterday was a pretty protracted affair, and it took about ¾ of an hour to get to the first of the narrow lanes outside the walls of the circuit – we even had to drive on the track between Clay Hill and Knickerbrook to get to the exit – and once outside it took a further 1/2 hour to reach a free-flowing road. Not the problem of the circuit, but it then took us twice as long to get back home, this time in rain that was lashing down, as two of the motorways we had to travel on were closed off due to incidents resulting in an almost 4 hour journey.

As to the racing, for those that have been clamouring for the Beemers to be somewhat unshackled, then their dreams were realised at Oulton leading to three outright wins. So those same people who believed that Sutton and the Fords would dominate, would have been disappointed that their prophesies were wrong, with the day finishing with the BMWs taking all the podium positions. I left there wondering whether Alan Gow might be thinking that they may well have allowed too much easing of the start restrictions for the Beemers after taking in to consideration that they have always gone well at this circuit. I imagine it will be food for thought for Gow and TOCA.

As they lined up for the last race, I mentioned to my son about how long it would take for Morgan to lose the lead; he seems to so often find himself on pole for the reverse grid, yet I can’t recall him ever converting that to a win, certainly whilst he’s been with in the BMW.
It was very enjoyable just to see and hear the cars up fairly close, however a lot of the races were disappointing from where we were. In the past, Hislops has seen quite a lot of action/overtaking as there is a fairly good opportunity under braking for the chicane. But apart from Race 3, nothing much seemed to happen.

Of the incidents during the day, I do think that it was unfortunate that Sutton rubbed along the wall on the drive down to Old Hall. My opinion, for what little it’s worth, is that Ingram, who I have always rated as a driver and a fair one at that, could have given Sutton more room. Ingram did come right across from his side of the track even though Sutton had started a row back, but nevertheless, Ingram should have been aware of Suttons presence. I don’t claim that it was a punishable manoeuvrer, but certainly an unfortunate one.

Of the other races on Sunday, I think that it must be one of the few Mini races that actually ran through to its conclusion without either a safety car or worse, a red flag. The Radicals were interesting, although the race was really confusing brought about with the safety car and cars having to do their pit stop. I really don’t understand the point of mandatory pit stops for a race that only lasts for 25 minutes! Does it really add to the enjoyment of the racing?

I did enjoy the day, don’t get me wrong, but I would have quite happily have watched it at home on the box. At least then I could have paused the broadcast and fast-forwarded over the dross parts (I record it, and usually start watching about an hour after the programme starts). But at least the weather held right until the end and am now admiring my sunburn, the same as the last time we visited Oulton a few years ago.

[Adam43]

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[v8supes]

I was really surprised. I expected Sutton to win race 1 and 2. Also surprised that it didn't rain at some point.

Was actually a solid weekend imo for racing compared to a few of the others.

[hen henths]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Wouldn't call it disappointing, pretty good races this weekend in my opinion. Although the difference between the hard and soft tyre is way too big, that's not racing.

I agree on both points. I don't remember the impact of the option tyre looking so obvious in previous years but as far as I know we hadn't had only hard and soft available in one race before. Also my memory didn't deceive me: the old soft tyre was less advantageous, at least according to JP: https://www.motorsport.com/btcc/news...-to-go/610479/

Originally Posted by JP

"Let's get rid of the soft – nobody's interested in it. It's slower over a race run, so why would you run something that makes you slower, unless you have to?"

As for Oulton, the action was good. Turks was good. We'll have to wait and see whether the improved circumstances for the BMWs will carry over to their less favorable tracks.

[Craner Curves]

Turkington was great. He's had that in his locker all the time, but for too long he has been playing the percentages game and shackling himself.

[Sodemo]

I'm sorry, several posters have mentioned some kind of change to the BMW start restrictions, has there been some kind of rule alteration for them?

[Mike Harte]

I do think that it is no longer germane to current BTCC racing to use the opinion of Plato when he was referring to races in 2015. I would be very surprised indeed if the tyre compounds then are the same as they are in 2023. And even then, was Plato just talking about how they worked on the particular car that he was driving at that time.

However, regardless of that, it is now quite evident that today's soft compounds are more than equal to the task. You only have to look at the progress of the 4 drivers that had them in Race 3; there didn't seem to be any problems for them, tyre wise, right to the end of the race and throughout that race, they continued to be considerably quicker than their peers.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'm sorry, several posters have mentioned some kind of change to the BMW start restrictions, has there been some kind of rule alteration for them?

Yes, mentioned by Harvey and maybe also Rider and O'Neil. And other drivers must have been aware of the fact because Sutton referred to it in his post race 1 interview with Louise Goodman. In effect he said that he pretty well knew that he wouldn't be able to match Hill's movement off the line.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Yes, mentioned by Harvey and maybe also Rider and O'Neil. And other drivers must have been aware of the fact because Sutton referred to it in his post race 1 interview with Louise Goodman. In effect he said that he pretty well knew that he wouldn't be able to match Hill's movement off the line.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying, i'm a "fastforward to the end of the parade lap kinda guy" when I am doing the Sky Plus thing.

So is it just the startline change or has there been other changes?

[Mike Harte]

That was all that was mentioned as far as I am aware. The pace of the BMWs during the day was put down to their rapid acceleration off the line, but also that firstly the track suits them but also the weather played into their hands in that the Beemers have always performed well on hot days with warm/hot track temperatures partly because the tyres switch on far quicker.

[hen henths]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I do think that it is no longer germane to current BTCC racing to use the opinion of Plato when he was referring to races in 2015. I would be very surprised indeed if the tyre compounds then are the same as they are in 2023. And even then, was Plato just talking about how they worked on the particular car that he was driving at that time.

I take your point. I was trying to highlight how much the tyre labelled "soft" has apparently changed over that time period, going from something drivers may have preferred not to use to one they now love. A different compound is almost certainly the reason.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by hen henths

I don't remember the impact of the option tyre looking so obvious in previous years but as far as I know we hadn't had only hard and soft available in one race before.

In previous years Oulton has used Mediums as the standard and Softs as the option, so the impact wouldn't have been as much.

[Mike Harte]

In my mind, it was a complete waste of time because all the teams elected to use the softs for Races 1 & 2 apart from just 4 drivers out of 27. Team tactics barely came into it, so no-one who was in contention for the championship was affected.

[redshoes]

But it was team tactics. Use softs in the first 2 races and hope that it rained for race 3 meaning they wouldn't need to run hards. As Moffat found out in race 1, anyone going for hards in race 1 would be totally out-paced.

If the forecast was for dry weather all day we would probably have seen more variation.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by redshoes

But it was team tactics. Use softs in the first 2 races and hope that it rained for race 3 meaning they wouldn't need to run hards. As Moffat found out in race 1, anyone going for hards in race 1 would be totally out-paced.

If the forecast was for dry weather all day we would probably have seen more variation.

The weather app that I use showed that rain wouldn't drift into Oulton until just after the last race. I'm pretty sure, despite whatever any of the drivers/teams said, they also knew that as well so knew that they were pretty safe using the softs whilst it was hot and dry and, if necessary if it did actually rain, then they would have wets to use. And I'm pretty sure that all team managers knew what the other managers would do; it was no lottery yesterday because it was the logical choice.

While talking tyres, I was surprised, possibly because I was unaware of the practice, that teams do not have to hand back their tyres after each meeting. Because of this, the Power Maxed were able to use extra unused soft tyres that were left over from previous meetings. This accounted for their speed on Saturday during free practice.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The weather app that I use showed that rain wouldn't drift into Oulton until just after the last race. I'm pretty sure, despite whatever any of the drivers/teams said, they also knew that as well so knew that they were pretty safe using the softs whilst it was hot and dry and, if necessary if it did actually rain, then they would have wets to use. And I'm pretty sure that all team managers knew what the other managers would do; it was no lottery yesterday because it was the logical choice.

While talking tyres, I was surprised, possibly because I was unaware of the practice, that teams do not have to hand back their tyres after each meeting. Because of this, the Power Maxed were able to use extra unused soft tyres that were left over from previous meetings. This accounted for their speed on Saturday during free practice.

Weather apps - that well known source of 100% consistent information!! When I am Harvesting I go with the most favourable one and hope it’s correct!

[Adam43]

People who are surprised after reading read apps - known for not understanding the concept of forecasting.

[porsche962fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUGZf_lvumA

[Mike Harte]

I have found that the app that I use is around 95% accurate and about 90% on timing. It was forecasting rain at 18.00, and as we were queueing to leave, the rain did start. At 17.00 there were just a few spots of rain which amounted to absolutely nothing.

[thetool]

It absolutely ****ed it down less than 10 miles from the circuit before race 3 started so I don't think anyone could have been confident of the weather in advance.