Bruno Injured / Replaced by Servia

[macdaddy]

...infact he didn't want his name on the indy franchise.

That's what I would have thought too, but obviously that wasn't the case, as the entry was from N/H and not just H.

[N I Tram]

I assumed Paul had a change of heart, because the cars were definitely NHR this year. Certainly it's not an 'easy' win anymore, but both Bruno and Seb had the pace to challenge for victory, and under different circumstances they would surely have been top 5.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Liz

There are people in this world who really think that things can be legitimate even if there are no Americans involved at all. And my guess is that the huge hit NH took with losing one of their star drivers and having to pay out for an additional salary and testing time to get a new driver up to speed will more than eat up any money and or "glory" they might have gathered from running in the IRL for one race.

But I will wait to hear what Bruno AND Mr. Newman have to say on the subject.

Although they could have earned as much as $2 million as a team....

Their actual total payout from the purse was $426,760

The mangled two race cars...the chassis cost between $300,000 and $330,000 each

Bruno wnet to the hospital and has basically lost a chance to win the Championship....

It was an expensive weekend for N-H Racing....in more ways than one...

[macdaddy]

Make the most of it! Here's the chance you've always been waiting for!




Photo by Dan R. Boyd, USA LAT Photographic

[macdaddy]

I should've broken this thread into two yesterday, another entitled "Oriol", but too late now...

Anyway, there's a poll on the CC homepage about him.
How do you think he'll fare?

Current results:
44% - Top 5
26% - Podium
21% - Top 10
07% - Win

There is no option for "Outside of Top10", but I voted "Podium" anyway.

[Mike.ca]

Originally Posted by Liz

There are people in this world who really think that things can be legitimate even if there are no Americans involved at all.

Has anyone on this thread, or any other, said otherwise? Can you post a quote?
I have said that, despite all the dreams of global expansion, Champ Car's primary market is the United States. It's secondary markets are Canada and Mexico. I have said that American fans want to see American drivers in top notch rides, running at the front, winning races and contending for the championship. I believe that if Champ Car is to survive and thrive in its primary marketplace, it has to provide that. The sudden vacancy on the series' top team provided an opportunity to do so. For whatever reason, it was an opportunity missed. Oriol Servia is a fine driver. I do not think that N-H should sacrifice its own interests by choosing a less talented American over a more talented non-American. But, given drivers of equal talent, I believe that putting a qualified American driver in one of the best cars in the series would do more for the series as a whole. I do not think that the need to have American race winners and championship contenders is the result of any all-American xenophobia. I don't think that interest in Canada or Mexico would be at the level it is without the Canadian and Mexican stars Champ Car has had in recent years. If you would like to discuss or debate those points on this or any other thread, I would be happy to do so. But neither I, nor anyone else, has said anything about the legitimacy of Champ Car racing.

[Jordi]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

Make the most of it! Here's the chance you've always been waiting for!




Photo by Dan R. Boyd, USA LAT Photographic

He looks gorgeous!

I'm confident he will make the most of it. Heck, I even picked him for the win before it was confirmed he'd drive for Newman/Haas!

[JohnSSC]

Interesting that there have been many posts on this forum about the importance of having Canadian drivers in the field due to the races (and the success thereof) held in Canada. We then read about how it really is not necessary for an American to be in the Series at all let alone the N-H seat. Interesting.

I support what Mike.ca posted above and would like to expand on that a bit.

First, I like Oriol and have hoped for some time he would get a ride with a top-tier team. This is a good opportunity for him and I hope he does well. His landing a ride makes OWRS neither more, nor less legitimate than it was previously.

Second, as a North American-based (for now) Series, it would have behooved OWRS to grab an opportunity to start some buzz for an American driver in one of the top open wheel series. One good reason would be to build up some TV ratings generated around a good "human interest" or "local boy does good" story if you will.

Third, Oriol could have been rewarded by moving him to Rocketsports and RHR to N-H for example. I know this may not be the best example of what would have generated a good story - but you get my drift. The Amigos have had their fingers in just about every driver move in the Series and it would have seemed logical that they do something here that would have made more of a splash.

[macdaddy]

That may happen yet, John. I'm not saying that it will, just that it might. Nowhere have I read that Oriol's new contract is for the rest of the season. It may just be a one-off, until N/H finds another driver. Afterall, this actually reduced the car-count, something that can only happen for Milwaukee. The "one-off" idea may well have been what turned a few of the other drivers away. Also, the team hadn't much more than 4 days to fill that seat.

Coyne is about to sign Villeneuve, anyway.

Seriously though, things have been happening really quickly because of the timeframe. Look for 18 cars/drivers at Portland, and only then will we see what happens.

[JohnSSC]

Oh please - not another "Villeneuve to OWRS" thread starting!!!!

True enough, macdaddy, and I agree that everything is still written in sponge at this point but it sounds like N-H is looking at Servia as their guy until Bruno comes back.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Oh please - not another "Villeneuve to OWRS" thread starting!!!!

True enough, macdaddy, and I agree that everything is still written in sponge at this point but it sounds like N-H is looking at Servia as their guy until Bruno comes back.

http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/17316/

Half way down the page "SERVIA'S TRYOUT"

The deal is just for Milwaulkee with an evaluation after that.

Rumours include NHR talking to Ricardo Zonta.

I do agree with John that RHR at NHR would have been the best solution. Then put Mario Haberfield at Rocketsports. However it does seem that PG didn't want this to happen.

[The Snout]

Servia's paid his dues and is a good choice for the try out. CCWS needs to stay the course and get the best driver for the job and think about quality. Chucking a US driver in the seat won't make an ounce of difference for the series in ratings or hoopla. We'd need to fill all the seats with American drivers to pander to their interest and frankly that just isn't consistent with where the series is heading.

[Kicking-back]

Zonta won't be doing it - he's an integral part of Toyota's F1 team and I can't see them releasing him.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

We then read about how it really is not necessary for an American to be in the Series at all let alone the N-H seat. Interesting.

I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that it's not benificial having the three Americans in the field. I think it would be a great idea to get an American in the NH seat.

[Hazza]

I reckon Os will be in with a big shot. I can't wait for this race, ovals forever!

Originally Posted by climb

Moreover it's well known that Newman was and is absolutely contrary to the IRL world, infact he didn't want his name on the indy franchise.

Originally Posted by The Late Show with David Letterman

Dave: And you'll personally be at indy?
Paul: No, as has been well documented I have a problem with the management there...

[gttouring]

and oriol did great today
3rd is no slouch effort in the midst of the guys he ran against after only 2 hour practice.
allmindinger and tracy looked good adn refreshed, while poor servia looked knackered after that race.

[Snrub]

No kidding. With 20-30 laps more Servia might have won! I think Junquiera would have qualified/started better than Servia did, but Servia certainly did everything required and then some during the race.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Servia's paid his dues and is a good choice for the try out. CCWS needs to stay the course and get the best driver for the job and think about quality. Chucking a US driver in the seat won't make an ounce of difference for the series in ratings or hoopla. We'd need to fill all the seats with American drivers to pander to their interest and frankly that just isn't consistent with where the series is heading.

Jimmy Vasser apparently agrees with you on this one. When the pre-race announcer interviewing him blabbered on and on and on about how wonderful it was to have TWO AMERICANS on the front row, Jimmy patiently heard him out and then shrugged, "It's probably nice for the fans, but in the end it's only a race."

I agree with him. Political correctness has no place in racing. Getting the best man for the job is the important thing. Today Servia was definitely the best man for that job, although he gave all the credit to the car and team.

We've had the discussion before about "America is THE market for Champ Cars" and a lot of people have explained why it is hopeless to keep on courting a suitor who has been adamant in her disinterest when other suitors are waving their hankies and yelling YOO HOO, OVER HERE! So no more on that boring argument from me.

[JohnSSC]

Funny how trivial that issue is as the AP wire service went to great length to note how long it has been since two Americans had started on the front row and included Vasser's finally getting a pole for the first time since 2002 - when he was driving for Chip Ganassi.

If it were that insignificant then one would think the mainstream press would not notice it either.

Based on the number of people in the stands though, maybe it is less significant than it once was.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by Liz

Jimmy Vasser apparently agrees with you on this one. When the pre-race announcer interviewing him blabbered on and on and on about how wonderful it was to have TWO AMERICANS on the front row, Jimmy patiently heard him out and then shrugged, "It's probably nice for the fans, but in the end it's only a race."

I agree with him. Political correctness has no place in racing. Getting the best man for the job is the important thing. Today Servia was definitely the best man for that job, although he gave all the credit to the car and team.

We've had the discussion before about "America is THE market for Champ Cars" and a lot of people have explained why it is hopeless to keep on courting a suitor who has been adamant in her disinterest when other suitors are waving their hankies and yelling YOO HOO, OVER HERE! So no more on that boring argument from me.

I was saying elsewhere, 5-6 races well attended races in the US for B2B purposes and a few drivers who have earnt the seats based on ability rather than passport. I keep hearing more Americans needed, but after the audiences effort in stepping up to the plate at Milwaukee on Saturday, or Road America or Laguna or Mid Ohio, frankly, I don't see the justification to pander to the wants of the minority.

[Mike.ca]

Reading the posts from Liz and The Snout, one could easily get the impression that Champ Car is abandoning the U.S. market. That, of course, is nonsense. Yes, the series hopes to expand to new venues. But aren't those hoped-for new races supposed to be in addition to the venues it already has? If anyone can show me anthing from KK, GF or PG saying that Champ Car is moving out the US market, I'd like to see it. And, if it is, why did KK just spend millions on Long Beach? And, if the series is to expand successfully, shouldn't it do so from a secure base - it's traditional markets? Wouldn't turning its back on fans the country that has, historically, been CART/CCWS's biggest market be potential recipe for disaster?
Champ Car is in the American market. Half its races are in the U.S. Even if the series adds more overseas races, the U.S. events will continue to make up a large part of the schedule. And if it is in the U.S. market, then it had better do more to attract American fans. They want to see American race winners and championship contenders. That isn't a matter of "political correctness" or "pandering", it's a matter of doing what you have to do for your series to thrive. Bernie Ecclestone gets it. The Red Bull people get it. That's why they're searching for a new American F1 star. They know full well that F1 will not reach its full potential in the U.S. without at least one American star? What makes Champ Car so different? Liz quotes Jimmy Vasser as saying that, "It's probably nice for the fans" - as if that's a bad thing. Here's a newsflash: if this series is to survive and succeed, it had better appeal to its fans and potential fans.

Originally Posted by The Snout

Chucking a US driver in the seat won't make an ounce of difference for the series in ratings or hoopla. We'd need to fill all the seats with American drivers to pander to their interest and frankly that just isn't consistent with where the series is heading.

If the goal is to have American frontrunners then just chucking any American into a top ride, regardless of talent, would be a waste of time. But who ever suggested that? No one on this thread. Yes, Servia is a fine driver. Did anyone say he wasn't? But, IMHO, Hunter-Reay is just as good. In a decent car, he can win races. In a Newman-Haas car, he could be a championship contender. An American or two in top rides can help to boost CC's profile in the country where it holds half its races. The notion that all of the seats would have to filled with Americans is ludicrous. So is the notion that having an American star would have no effect. Are we supposed to believe that if a competitive Australian driver was winning CC races and in the hunt for the championship, it wouldn't have a positive effect on Australian TV ratings and ticket sales for Surfer's Paradise? Of course it would. I can say without a doubt that if Champ Car didn't have a Canadian star, the interest here wouldn't be what it is.

Originally Posted by Liz

We've had the discussion before about "America is THE market for Champ Cars" and a lot of people have explained why it is hopeless to keep on courting a suitor who has been adamant in her disinterest when other suitors are waving their hankies and yelling YOO HOO, OVER HERE! So no more on that boring argument from me.

I guess I missed it. If there has been some past discussion where someone has explaned as to why Champ Car doesn't need to appeal to fans in the country where it holds half its races, I would love to read it. Does anyone have a link? As for Champ Cars' efforts to woo American fans, do you not think that its problems might have something to do with the lack of American stars. It seems to me that one of the reasons why CART took Champ Car racing to new heights in the 80's and early 90's was because it had drivers who appealed to the fans in its main market - the Andrettis, Sullivan, Rahal, Unser Jr., etc. One of the things that hurt CART in its later years, and that is hurting CCWS now, is that it didn't find anyone to replace them.

[Mike.ca]

Originally Posted by The Snout

I was saying elsewhere, 5-6 races well attended races in the US for B2B purposes and a few drivers who have earnt the seats based on ability rather than passport. I keep hearing more Americans needed, but after the audiences effort in stepping up to the plate at Milwaukee on Saturday, or Road America or Laguna or Mid Ohio, frankly, I don't see the justification to pander to the wants of the minority.

A few observations:

1) If you have any proof that CCWS is planning to cale back to 5-6 American races, please post it.
2) B2B is all well and good but if a race is going to succeed, it still has to get paying customers through the gate. You still have to appeal to racing fans - unless KK and GF are willing to underwrite the cost of all of their American races. Successful, well attended, events (like the Molson Indy) make good B2B platforms. Do empty grandstands and poor TV ratings have that much appeal? B2B is at the mercy of the marketplace. Let's-entertain-the-client events took one heck of a beating after the high tech collapse of 2000 and still aren't back to what they were. In the current economic climate, only a very brave CO would recommend spending corporate funds on motor racing (maybe you've noticed the lack of sponsorships?). Racing fans will come back year after year if you value them and offer them what they want to see.
3) "....and a few drivers who have earnt the seats based on ability rather than passport." Still trying to distort the issue, I see. Who has said that drivers should get seats on the basis of nationality, not talent? Show me a quote? As I have already explained, the issue here is CC's inability to get TALENTED American drivers into top rides and the consequences of its failure to create new American stars on its attempt to succeed in the American market.
4) "....but after the audiences effort in stepping up to the plate at Milwaukee on Saturday, or Road America or Laguna or Mid Ohio, frankly, I don't see the justification to pander to the wants of the minority." So Champ Car does a poor job of selling itself to the U.S. market but if race attendence is low it's the fans' fault? Ridiculous. If you're having trouble selling your product, it's up to you to figure out why it isn't selling and fix it.

[The Snout]

1) Screw my words all you want, but I never said it was cutting back. I said how many would do.If you have proof that I said that, please post it.

2) "it still has to get paying customers through the gate." Better check my post, I said well attended did I not. 5-6 or even 10 if the US is viable enough to handle that many. "Racing fans will come back year after year if you value them and offer them what they want to see." . If US fans 'want to see' US drivers, try NASCAR.

3) Hey, if you want to be hung up on American drivers that's your bag. I couldn't care less how many drivers of which nationality are behind the wheel. My preference is to build the series to have the most talented ones there. If none of those are American, or if the European ladder systems are developing better drivers, too bad, just give us the best. By the way, before you say "the issue here is CC's inability to get TALENTED American drivers into top rides and the consequences of its failure to create new American stars on its attempt to succeed in the American market." , you may want to check out Danica Patrick, Buddy Rice, Sam Hornish etc etc etc. Last I checked these guys where the product of the CC ladder system. Granted. The top rides just happen to be in the National Championship Series.

4) "If you're having trouble selling your product, it's up to you to figure out why it isn't selling and fix it." . No one is buying the product in Milwaukee. Why go to the problem of distributing it for a few hardcores who will turn up at some other viable venue anyway. They had their chance to support it, if they choose not to then we're going to a venue, probably non-American, that does.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by The Snout

They had their chance to support it, if they choose not to then we're going to a venue, probably non-American, that does.

Actually, this is probably a bit harsh and premature. Not sure how many more years we have on the Milwaukee contract. But move the race back to a better time. If the fans show up again then maybe persevere on it further. Otherwise, if the fans there really want the IRL, then let them have it.

[Mike.ca]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Screw my words all you want, but I never said it was cutting back.

So we're agreed then that CCWS isn't getting out of the U.S. market. Fine. Then it should make a better effort at succeeding there.

"it still has to get paying customers through the gate." Better check my post, I said well attended did I not.

So the question is: how do we get more fans at the American tracks and more viewers on American TV? I've already given you the answer.

"Racing fans will come back year after year if you value them and offer them what they want to see." . If US fans 'want to see' US drivers, try NASCAR.

They are. And the IRL, too. If you want to write off U.S. fans and the U.S. marketplace, fine. But don't kid yourself, that kind of approach will do serious damage to the series.

Hey, if you want to be hung up on American drivers that's your bag. I couldn't GAF how many drivers of which nationality are behind the wheel. My preference is to build the series to have the most talented ones there. If none of those are American, or if the European ladder systems are developing better drivers, too bad, just give us the best.

My hang-up is that I want to see this series survive and succeed. If it's going to do that, it has to give its fans and potential fans what they want to see. As I have explained, this isn't just an American thing, but the U.S. is the series biggest, richest market. You can't just write it off. And, once again, I have never suggested that less talented drivers should get the better rides due to nationality. You are the one who keeps making that claim.

By the way, before you say "the issue here is CC's inability to get TALENTED American drivers into top rides and the consequences of its failure to create new American stars on its attempt to succeed in the American market." , you may want to check out Danica Patrick, Buddy Rice, Sam Hornish etc etc etc. Last I checked these guys where the product of the CC ladder system.

Yes. There ARE talented American drivers. And CCWS has done a poor job of getting them into its series.

"If you're having trouble selling your product, it's up to you to figure out why it isn't selling and fix it." . No one is buying the product in Milwaukee. Why go to the problem of distributing it for a few hardcores who will turn up at some other viable venue anyway. They had their chance to support it, if they choose not to then we're going to a venue, probably non-American, that does.

I agree, Milwaulkee is probably lost. The IRL does a better job of giving the fans there what they want to see. But this isn't just about Milwaulkee. If CCWS can't provide a product that American fans want to see, it will suffer declining attendence and TV ratings at all of its American races. You seem perfectly willing to write off the U.S. market. I think that would be a huge mistake for Champ Car. If the series is going to successfully expand into new markets, it has to do it from a solid base. Like it or not, that's the U.S. first, then Canada and Mexico.