Merger talks again? - Page 7

Xpunk75 · 24 Apr 2006, 18:35 (Ref:1594007)

Well to be honest, I think its a little ridiculous the Tony wants complete controll of the merged series, if anything it should be 50 - 50 and lets get it over with.

Look at what we have lost over these last 10 years.

indycool · 24 Apr 2006, 18:50 (Ref:1594010)

The thing is, nobody can define what "50-50" means and it's extremely doubtful if a merger takes place that any type of "50-50" will take place. This is going to be decided on assets and finances, not "50-50" on control, or drivers, or venues, or teams. If McAtee is prepared for a merger, he's also prepared for NO merger. I'd presume KK is, too.

norman-normal · 24 Apr 2006, 20:21 (Ref:1594077)

TG is under pressure to make a deal, KK is not.

Sense TG was appointed to run the family business, it appears to me that he has not done well; "the family giveth and can taketh away".

Snips1 · 24 Apr 2006, 21:28 (Ref:1594161)

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman-normal

TG is under pressure to make a deal, KK is not.

Sense TG was appointed to run the family business, it appears to me that he has not done well; "the family giveth and can taketh away".

Both men are under extreme pressure amd they both need a merger

luke · 24 Apr 2006, 21:37 (Ref:1594166)

And both know it's now or never. To be realistic, the situtaion can't improve for both series and it will only lead to further decline so you can tell they are trying to agree and accept who wants what and if they don't there is not much hope at all where as in the past they both thought they wouldn't need a merge at basically all costs as they both thought they could carry on and would prosper.

norman-normal · 25 Apr 2006, 02:06 (Ref:1594260)

Snips, luke, please give your reasoning?
I think CC has everything going for them, they have engines, fans, their own money (a lot of it) and the owners have a long and very successful record.
It would appear that in a few short years there will be only one open wheel series; what ever it's make-up is, TG will not be in charge.

mountainstar · 25 Apr 2006, 04:00 (Ref:1594284)

Everyone knows what the weakest link is and that's tony george. I believe any merger that happens will involve a sale of irl assets(whatever that may be, i don't know of any) and assuming some of the irls existing contracts with tv networks, tracks, etc.

In any case, i think we are reaching a point where something is bound to happen. No one on the irl side seems to be thrilled to be there.

luke · 25 Apr 2006, 16:00 (Ref:1594731)

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman-normal

Snips, luke, please give your reasoning?
I think CC has everything going for them, they have engines, fans, their own money (a lot of it) and the owners have a long and very successful record.
It would appear that in a few short years there will be only one open wheel series; what ever it's make-up is, TG will not be in charge.

I have stated previously that Champ Car seems to now have the momentum which some may not agree with.
I am a big Champ Car fan but I haven't just got out of a coma and realize that facts are facts. One of the two will probably not last many more years which in my opinion is the IRL but is it worth the risk not merging? Surely both have fallen down further by NASCAR enough and only survive because of their owners pulling money out of their pockets....This can't last forever. A merge is the only logical thing in my opinion.

Snips1 · 25 Apr 2006, 18:49 (Ref:1594821)

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman-normal

Snips, luke, please give your reasoning?
I think CC has everything going for them, they have engines, fans, their own money (a lot of it) and the owners have a long and very successful record.
It would appear that in a few short years there will be only one open wheel series; what ever it's make-up is, TG will not be in charge.

Well CC as IRL, bith seem to have strong teams, but many CC teasm are run out of the owners pocket, and most of the team are quite weak, they depend heavily on drivers who bring money with them, hnot a good sign.

A doubt th CC has more fans than the IRL, actually I'm quite sure none of them have any at all....

CC does not a a good TV contract, in fact KK has to pay LOTS of money for poor TV time, just as he has to pay LOTS of money to many races/tracks which create bad/none racing at all.

There are rumors that Ganassi, Rahal and Andretti are all goin to tun in CC next year, BUT where is the money going to come from?

I doubt 7-eleven and all the other sponsors want to pay for a CC budget, when they don't want to pay for an IRL budget.
If these 3 teams leve, they will leave OW racing altogether and partocipate in ALMS or whatever....

CC has to pay for their own engines, in fact KK owns Cosworth and is giving free engines to most of the teams, of course I can't confirm this but anyone who has an OQ over 10 must agree that this is happening isomehow.

I just don't see why the CC teasm should be that much stronger than the IRL teasm, not any longer...

In fact the only GREAT thing about CC this year, is the fact that they will go back racing at Road America!!!

luke · 25 Apr 2006, 19:26 (Ref:1594844)

I have to say I agree with you Snips.

Snips1 · 25 Apr 2006, 20:56 (Ref:1594913)

Sorry for all the spelling and typo errors....

Xpunk75 · 25 Apr 2006, 21:49 (Ref:1594954)

Cosworth does make alot of money selling engines to Williams F1 Team though, maybe thats how their covering the CC teams, by selling engines to F1 teams who have lots of money. lol I don't know just an idea.

Snips1 · 25 Apr 2006, 22:03 (Ref:1594966)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpunk75

Cosworth does make alot of money selling engines to Williams F1 Team though, maybe thats how their covering the CC teams, by selling engines to F1 teams who have lots of money. lol I don't know just an idea.

Well that could be the case, but the income source (F!) can change quickly and that's a bit unstable for a guy like KK

Fogelhund · 26 Apr 2006, 11:26 (Ref:1595347)

Of course there is some monies coming in from Ford on the "Powered by Ford" bit, though who knows how much this covers. On the other hand, these are existing engines that have been around for sometime. They can't be costing much to maintain for Cosworth really.

I think what Snips has posted is pretty on the money. So many people don't realize to what degree Open Wheel is in dire straits. These professional teams will go where the next dollar is. If that is with Honda in the American LeMans series... well goodbye OW. That is, unless they hire more Pay drivers. Several teams have already suggested without a merger, they're done.

Kevin_K · 26 Apr 2006, 20:57 (Ref:1595701)

^^^ That's right. Ganassi has said that he will wash his hands clean of OW if a merger does not get done. Even Andretti has said he doesn't know if his team will be around for '07.

luke · 26 Apr 2006, 21:14 (Ref:1595712)

Kevin I thought that was KK posting then lol!

indycool · 27 Apr 2006, 00:32 (Ref:1595844)

Kevin,
A link to where Ganassi said he's going to wash his hands of OW? A link to where Andretti has said anything?

Fish_Flake · 27 Apr 2006, 01:16 (Ref:1595860)

Kalkhoven and George both must realize that in order to preserve open-wheel racing in the United States and put the sport in at least decent health, neither can walk to the table proud. For a merger to work, both men are going to have to make concessions and eat some humble pie. Yes, Tony George has in the past decade taken the IRL from scratch and place it from being a moving joke to on an even keel with the established series. However, it has been a Phyrric victory, resulting in heavy casualties on both sides. Yes, Kevin Kalkhoven has over the last few years taken a series that had been reduced to nothing to at least return to respectability, but he must look at where his series was in 1993, 1996, or even 1999 compared to now, and consider how much potential investment beyond respectability is capable with two rival series.

I do believe that both of these men want what's best for their sport, and I believe that both of these men think that what's besr for their sport right now is a merger. Their problem is with their pride, and their stubbornness to realize that the time for one-uppance has past.

norman-normal · 27 Apr 2006, 02:56 (Ref:1595884)

Honda has stated many times, that it does not want to race if there is no compitition. Does anyone know for sure about the contract Honda has with the IRL? is it contingent upon a merge with CC? or attracting another engine supplier? Cosworth perhaps?

I don't think Honda would sign a long term, go it alone deal. Have the details been made public?

indycool · 27 Apr 2006, 03:07 (Ref:1595890)

Honda's contract with the IRL goes through 2009 to supply engines, but I have no idea what the provisions of it might be.

mountainstar · 27 Apr 2006, 14:33 (Ref:1596281)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

Kevin,
A link to where Ganassi said he's going to wash his hands of OW? A link to where Andretti has said anything?

Who cares what they said. Actions speak louder than words. If life in the irl is so peachy, then WHY would they bother to turn up at LONG BEACH for very public meetings?

JohnSSC · 28 Apr 2006, 01:56 (Ref:1596656)

If life in CC is so peachy, why does KK bother meeting with TG?

We could spend all day and night trying decide which comes first: the CC approaches IRL to merge chicken or the IRL approaches CC to merge egg.

The point is there will be no chicken and no egg if this does not get fixed. At this point I do not care who approaches who, who runs what %, if there are more oval races than street races or permanent road courses, what they call it or who sponsors it. I just want to see one series. I want that one series to breathe some life back into North American open wheel racing. Beyond that, I only wish to live long enough to enjoy a few good years of racing without all the stinking politics, machinations, defections and verbal defecations.

Both series' have some good things going for them. Most of the realists here see what they are and appreciate the efforts made by both series to make the good things happen. I just want somebody to step up, herd the kittens, and make one series.

Oh yeah, and I want it all right now!! Other than that my needs are simple...

Kevin_K · 28 Apr 2006, 05:53 (Ref:1596695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

Kevin,
A link to where Ganassi said he's going to wash his hands of OW? A link to where Andretti has said anything?

Sorry, I dont do legwork looking for links for other people who are perfectly capable of looking for them themselves. If you care about it enough to demand a link, then find it yourself.

If you don't believe because me I don't post a link, I really don't care. Ganassi said hes done w/ OW if no merger is reached. Andretti said he really didnt know itf they'd be around in '07. I read those two comments with my own two eyes and the articles I read them on are floating around somewhere in cyberspace.

indycool · 28 Apr 2006, 10:33 (Ref:1596864)

Oh.

norman-normal · 28 Apr 2006, 15:13 (Ref:1597024)

With two series we have nearly twice the cars and drivers, nearly twice the number of races and most likely lower ticket prices.

There are a number of promising young drivers, whose talents might never be developed with only one O/W series.

I do believe that one series will elvolve, by attrition or merger; but I will have mixed emotions about it.

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