[WEC] Rebellion Racing

[deggis]

Le Maine has an odd rumor about VAG being interested in supplying some VAG-brand-badged engine to Rebellion.

https://www.lemainelibre.fr/actualit...01-2018-211420

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by deggis

Le Maine has an odd rumor about VAG being interested in supplying some VAG-brand-badged engine to Rebellion.

https://www.lemainelibre.fr/actualit...01-2018-211420

This rumour is beginning to build a head of steam amongst the French journalists. Nothing yet from DSC/S365/AH/Autosport etc.

[Speedblood]

A Lamborghini badged Judd V10....? Nice thought while it lasts...

[deggis]

Bad wording: I meant an actual VAG-engine but the brand might be any of the VAG ones. That's how I understood it via Google translate.

[Hawkwood]

Wasn't this originally a Porsche rumour before Xmas?
Has it moved on to another VAG brand, or are people still thinking Porsche?

[Damian Baldi]

Which engine would be? The Bentley v8 turbo from the GT3 car?

[TF110]

Lamborghini/Audi GT3 V10? Maybe that DTM V8?

[PascaLM]

I think this article from the local press is not serious enough to be taken in consideration. "Some report that...", this is not informative.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Wasn't this originally a Porsche rumour before Xmas?
Has it moved on to another VAG brand, or are people still thinking Porsche?

Below is a translation of part of the text from the Endurance-Info article which started this rumour.

Remember that the Swiss team has secured the services of two Porsche drivers, namely Neel Jani and André Lotterer. Matthias Müller, president of Volkswagen Group, sent a message of encouragement to the team, finishing with a Rebellion cap on his head. It's been a while since we hear about a Porsche engine for a private LMP1. Should we see there the beginning of any relationship with a brand of the Volkswagen Group? Answer shortly ...

The article deggis linked to is the second reference to the possibility of a Rebellion/VAG engine deal. Elsewhere, people are surprised that the next generation Porsche LMP1 engine programme is still in full swing, with a team of 30 working on the project at Weissach, although media references suggest the project's existence indicates a possible return to F1, rather than the originally intended application in LMP1.

Lots of speculation and nothing confirmed or denied. A Gibson engine seemed most likely, but the delay in announcing their engine partner is adding fuel to the VAG rumours. All Bart has ever said on the subject is that they would prefer to go down the normally aspirated engine route. All will be revealed at the Geneva Motor Show.

[Akrapovic]

Gibson engine kinda confirmed on IMSA coverage there!

[chernaudi]

That fits in with them wanting a NA engine, but I'm surprised that they or no one else has gone with the Judd V10.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Gibson engine kinda confirmed on IMSA coverage there!

Didn't hear that, I was already tucked up in bed, but I'm not a bit surprised. The guys at DSC have said on several occasions that they anticipate the cars will be Gibson powered, which to me is 'kinda' confirmation too. I do like a good rumour though...

[Mike E]

Followed by this tweet from Andrew Marriott:

"Apologies due to @dsceditor, said on air I had scooped them with the Gibson LMP1 engine story. Not so apparently, apologies mate."

Meaning... There's no story, or DSC had the scoop?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Followed by this tweet from Andrew Marriott:

"Apologies due to @dsceditor, said on air I had scooped them with the Gibson LMP1 engine story. Not so apparently, apologies mate."

Meaning... There's no story, or DSC had the scoop?

Not entirely sure, but DSC scoop probably makes more sense, given that the apology was sent to Graham direct, rather than him simply correcting the Gibson reference without directing the apology to anyone in particular, which would have implied something quite different. Anyway, we'll find out soon, the team clearly aren't ready to officially announce the identity of their engine partner yet. If it does turn out to be Gibson, you're certainly left thinking 'why all the secrecy?'.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Not entirely sure, but DSC scoop probably makes more sense, given that the apology was sent to Graham direct, rather than him simply correcting the Gibson reference without directing the apology to anyone in particular, which would have implied something quite different. Anyway, we'll find out soon, the team clearly aren't ready to officially announce the identity of their engine partner yet. If it does turn out to be Gibson, you're certainly left thinking 'why all the secrecy?'.

Unless it's Gibson badged as something else.

[Damian Baldi]

Rebellion’s ORECA LMP1s Set For Gibson Power

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...son-power.html

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Damian Baldi

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...son-power.html

To me it looks like Rebellion have yet again been mugged into a poor engine decision by their old chums Oreca, who are also helping Toyota. Because we cant have any privateers giving Toyota trouble. I believe it will be increased in capacity to 4.5 litres, which is still too small for an NA engine in LMP1. Max capacity = max low end torque = better acelleration on the big fast WEC circuits. LeMans is basically 5 big acelleration zones, torque is king.

Sure an easy engine to install, but if they were going the NA route they should have gone for the judd V10 5.5l motor. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the Mechachrome, AER and Cosworth turbo V6's for sure, but i'd love to be a fly on the wall when the penny drops for Rebellion.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Damian Baldi

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...son-power.html

Well, the VAG engine rumour was an interesting distraction lol, but Graham has been consistent from the outset that he believed the cars would be Gibson powered. Nice to finally put this one to bed!

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by knighty

To me it looks like Rebellion have yet again been mugged into a poor engine decision by their old chums Oreca, who are also helping Toyota. Because we cant have any privateers giving Toyota trouble. I believe it will be increased in capacity to 4.5 litres, which is still too small for an NA engine in LMP1. Max capacity = max low end torque = better acelleration on the big fast WEC circuits. LeMans is basically 5 big acelleration zones, torque is king.

Sure an easy engine to install, but if they were going the NA route they should have gone for the judd V10 5.5l motor. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the Mechachrome, AER and Cosworth turbo V6's for sure, but i'd love to be a fly on the wall when the penny drops for Rebellion.

I don't doubt the wisdom of what you are saying, but without a doubt, Rebellion (just listen to Bart) are always going to look towards endurance over one lap fireworks in whatever package they choose. They have an extremely good reliability record, and it is that which is key to their many successes. Whatever performance shortfall this package might have (given your analysis of the engine options), I suspect their stellar driver line-up and reliability will more than compensate.

[BRG]

Originally Posted by knighty

To me it looks like Rebellion have yet again been mugged into a poor engine decision by their old chums Oreca, who are also helping Toyota. Because we cant have any privateers giving Toyota trouble. I believe it will be increased in capacity to 4.5 litres, which is still too small for an NA engine in LMP1. Max capacity = max low end torque = better acelleration on the big fast WEC circuits. LeMans is basically 5 big acelleration zones, torque is king.

Sure an easy engine to install, but if they were going the NA route they should have gone for the judd V10 5.5l motor. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the Mechachrome, AER and Cosworth turbo V6's for sure, but i'd love to be a fly on the wall when the penny drops for Rebellion.

Has not the AOC said BOP would be done between NA and Turbo engines. If so the 4.5l Gibson NA route makes good sense to me

[BRG]

Good sense unless anybody enters a Judd 5.5 v10 or a Cadillac 5.5 v8

[knighty]

Exactly, how on earth can an as yet un-raced engine be sold as "reliable", doing 30 hour dyno runs, or 30 hour track runs is meaningless compared to a race environment.

The Judd V10 5.5 and Cadillac 5.5 V8 ARE competitive, reliable and race proven.......all 3 boxes ticked

Sounds like Rebellion have fallen for a bit of smoke and mirrors from Gibson, but I do admit the LMP2 engine has been a good bit of kit and far more reliable than I was expecting, but its a 2nd choice engine for me, considering the Judd option.

[canaglia]

To me pick gibson has been the wisest move.
AER p60 is unreliable, mechacrome engine is still a great question mark, nismo V6 is kolles exclusive.... any gibson lmp2 blown so far.

GM 6.2L V8 from last season would be the real deal for lmp1!
>700Nm torque release, simply unbreakable and city car like consumes.
Strange anyone din't knock GM-RCR door.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by canaglia

any gibson lmp2 blown so far.

One, and just because the team accidentally left something in the airbox that shouldn't have been there and that something ended up being sucked into the engine.

[Damian Baldi]

Originally Posted by knighty

Exactly, how on earth can an as yet un-raced engine be sold as "reliable", doing 30 hour dyno runs, or 30 hour track runs is meaningless compared to a race environment.

The Judd V10 5.5 and Cadillac 5.5 V8 ARE competitive, reliable and race proven.......all 3 boxes ticked

Sounds like Rebellion have fallen for a bit of smoke and mirrors from Gibson, but I do admit the LMP2 engine has been a good bit of kit and far more reliable than I was expecting, but its a 2nd choice engine for me, considering the Judd option.

I think the choice was made about a question of time remaining to get prepared. They could be using more parts from the P2 car and save time to build the car, that translate in more testing before the first race.