[LM24] Audi plans for 2010 revealed

[CTD]

Hmm, as far as i can see compared to the '09 R15, there is no modifications, but of course, it's a very small glimpse!

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by CTD

Hmm, as far as i can see compared to the '09 R15, there is no modifications, but of course, it's a very small glimpse!

Agreed. That is a major tease and I can't see any differences

[Acid09]

They have the car ready for new drivers to sit in but still claim there`s no way to do Sebring which is still 6 weeks away? Weak...

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Acid09

They have the car ready for new drivers to sit in but still claim there`s no way to do Sebring which is still 6 weeks away? Weak...

There is a LOOONG way from having build the car, to have it race ready!
Audi stated that the car itself could be ready, but that they could not test it before, which is very important.

[chernaudi]

Looks like the LM/PLM '09 car to me, or it's their test/R&D car. Either way, it seems to be for promo shots for the new LM/LMIC driver squad.

Or Audi may be trying to psych-out Peugeot?

Anyways, this is about the driving squad for the third car at LM-expect Dumas/Bernard/Rocky line up, barring unforeseen circumstances. Audi letting some of their drivers out of their LM/LMS/ALMS contract makes since, as Audi won't run a 3rd car except for LM and maybe Spa. I'd expect for Audi to keep Marco and Lucas at arms length(testing and R8 GT3 racing), as who knows what Audi will do for 2011-maybe LM, ALMS, and LMIC in '11 if the economy is strong enough and Audi Sport is given enough of a blank check for '11.

Lucas' and Marco's dropping by Audi as far as their LM program is simply due to too many drivers for too few cars(Audi only wants to run two cars in LMIC) cars and Audi is trying to get some younger drivers in to supplement and ultimatley replace the older(40+ year old) veteran drivers a few years down the road.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Looks like the LM/PLM '09 car to me, or it's their test/R&D car. Either way, it seems to be for promo shots for the new LM/LMIC driver squad.

Good point. We don't even know if this is actually an updated car.

[gttouring]

so what is new in the "plus"?

[chernaudi]

Mulsanne Mike says the Audi may partly block off the air channels between the sidepods and their outer fence.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Mulsanne Mike says the Audi may partly block off the air channels between the sidepods and their outer fence.

Actually what I said was that I understand there's debate within Audi about how to rectify the R15 and from that I wouldn't be surprised if the channel concept goes away considering Audi's lack of commitment to ALMS (where the concept would pay dividends). The twin channel concept would not work in a "partial" format. Blank off any portion of the channel and you're limiting airflow through the ducts which kills the concept.

[Audi Racer]

confirmation from speedtv broadcasting of the rolex 24 hours that Lucas Luhr will not be part of the LeMans driving lineup. Luhr's contract is in jeopardy.

interesting is that the wording Luhr and Rockenfeller use to describe how they were allowed to run the Rolex 24 "released". But i still think rockenfeller is going to stay. Strange how Rocky crashes and stays but Luhr crashes and gets axed( pretty sure there was more consideration than that). Premat should'nt have even been in the linup and i assume he's the first guy they had no doubt about axing.

Dindo Capello's a bit of a mystery.
They surely woudn't get rid of him and leave him to race Audi R8 LMS cars around the nurburgring.

Lotterer was very impressive at Lemans in the R10.

Wasn't Treluyer the one who destroyed the Peugeot?

Fassler i don't really know how he'll be . He was good in the corvette at Lemans. If anything i would have went for Antonio Garcia.

How interesting possibly a Dumas, Bernhard, Rockenfeller lineup.

1. Capello,McNish,Kristensen(injured)
2.Dumas,Bernhard,Rockenfeller
3.Lotterer,Fassler,Treluyer

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Actually what I said was that I understand there's debate within Audi about how to rectify the R15 and from that I wouldn't be surprised if the channel concept goes away considering Audi's lack of commitment to ALMS (where the concept would pay dividends). The twin channel concept would not work in a "partial" format. Blank off any portion of the channel and you're limiting airflow through the ducts which kills the concept.

Couldn't Audi just and an extra fence in between the sidepod and the outside fence that trails the pontoon on the front fenders back through to the rear diffuser to achieve what I'm looking at(using the vents to tune the areo)?

After all, Audi isn't just racing at Le Mans or the general Herman Tilke start-stop F1 cirucits. At Spa, you need downforce for the fast corners(the R10 had the edge over the 908 in cornering at Spa in '08), and at Road Atlanta, you need downforce as there are only a couple of slow corners at RA(the R10 and R15 had the edge in those areas against the 908 in those past meetings). And as far as the Asian LMS series, if it's at Suzuka, downforce will pay dividends due to fast corners and direction changes.

And it should also be remembered that Audi has to do at least 1-4 more races(depending on ACO rules for LMIC classifcation), and those could be anywhere-Nurbergring GP(downforce circuit), Algarve(downforce circuit), Laguna Seca(downforce circuit), or Fuji(low downforce ciruit).

Audi may not want to entirely abandon the channel concept if they want the R15 to perform anywhere near it's peak outside of Le Mans, and even then, at LM a refined concept may help, as the R15 made up time in cornering and braking at LM after their got their chassis tuned up.

I feel that if Audi had more testing(in the dry) before Le Mans, they would've been in better shape and had a better understanding of what made the R15 work at a low downforce track and overall use its tires effectively without compormising mechanical grip

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Couldn't Audi just and an extra fence in between the sidepod and the outside fence that trails the pontoon on the front fenders back through to the rear diffuser to achieve what I'm looking at(using the vents to tune the areo)?

After all, Audi isn't just racing at Le Mans or the general Herman Tilke start-stop F1 cirucits. At Spa, you need downforce for the fast corners(the R10 had the edge over the 908 in cornering at Spa in '08), and at Road Atlanta, you need downforce as there are only a couple of slow corners at RA(the R10 and R15 had the edge in those areas against the 908 in those past meetings). And as far as the Asian LMS series, if it's at Suzuka, downforce will pay dividends due to fast corners and direction changes.

And it should also be remembered that Audi has to do at least 1-4 more races(depending on ACO rules for LMIC classifcation), and those could be anywhere-Nurbergring GP(downforce circuit), Algarve(downforce circuit), Laguna Seca(downforce circuit), or Fuji(low downforce ciruit).

Audi may not want to entirely abandon the channel concept if they want the R15 to perform anywhere near it's peak outside of Le Mans, and even then, at LM a refined concept may help, as the R15 made up time in cornering and braking at LM after their got their chassis tuned up.

I feel that if Audi had more testing(in the dry) before Le Mans, they would've been in better shape and had a better understanding of what made the R15 work at a low downforce track and overall use its tires effectively without compormising mechanical grip

But based on what you've said here we're looking at two different cars. Why would Audi commit to something like that for one year? I suspect they'll do a mild revision to the R15 and then concentrate on next year's car. I further suspect the twin channel concept would be too draggy for ACO 2011 given the substantial power reduction. Thus another reason to abandon the channel concept now and concentrate on working on a more conventional solution that has relevance to 2011.

[chernaudi]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, the channel concept is one of the things that killed the R15 at Le Mans, right?

According to what you've said, Audi is looking at modifying that, at least for Le Mans. Meanwhile(my point), Audi is considering that while looking at keeping at least some version of it due to some of the circuits that the R15 will run this year in the LMIC and in the races that they'll run to qualify for classification for that championship.

I don't think that the R15 is as versitale as the R10, or for sure the R8. Audi may've skewed too far towards the ALMS end, due to them wanting to run it in the ALMS last year. Audi may have to make more modifcations to make the R15 as good at Le Mans as they wanted. But they'll need to keep the channel concept to some degree to give them the edge at the circuits like Road Atlanta, Silverstone, Spa, and likely other cirucits.

I do agree, however, that Audi may largely abandon the channel on the R15's successor, due to the power reduction(which may limit the Rxx to the power/torque levels of what the R8 had in 2003-06 in the ALMS, assuming that it uses a 3.7 diesel V8), as well as the difficulties that Audi's already had with the R15 that it took them until Petit Le Mans to iron most of out.

As for the R15, I'm asking if there would be a worth while advantage to partly blocking the side channels either with a vertical or horizontal valiance panel between the side pod and the outer fence, or using a hybrid of the R15's current side channels and a pontoon fender solution like the R8 and R10 using perhaps a F1 style barge board to divert some of the air out a vent in the side fence? May be a bit of work, but will save Audi from a total detail redesign with the R15 that'll only last maybe one year unless the R15 is given a waiver(like the R8 in '06) to run in the ALMS in 2011.

And by mild revision, what would you mean-like the pontoon fenders beind added to the R8 in 2001, or the "Spa wings" on the R10 in '08? Something of that nature as far as major changes(major, but doing away with a redesign)?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Just to make sure we're on the same page, the channel concept is one of the things that killed the R15 at Le Mans, right?

According to what you've said, Audi is looking at modifying that, at least for Le Mans. Meanwhile(my point), Audi is considering that while looking at keeping at least some version of it due to some of the circuits that the R15 will run this year in the LMIC and in the races that they'll run to qualify for classification for that championship.

I don't think that the R15 is as versitale as the R10, or for sure the R8. Audi may've skewed too far towards the ALMS end, due to them wanting to run it in the ALMS last year. Audi may have to make more modifcations to make the R15 as good at Le Mans as they wanted. But they'll need to keep the channel concept to some degree to give them the edge at the circuits like Road Atlanta, Silverstone, Spa, and likely other cirucits.

I do agree, however, that Audi may largely abandon the channel on the R15's successor, due to the power reduction(which may limit the Rxx to the power/torque levels of what the R8 had in 2003-06 in the ALMS, assuming that it uses a 3.7 diesel V8), as well as the difficulties that Audi's already had with the R15 that it took them until Petit Le Mans to iron most of out.

As for the R15, I'm asking if there would be a worth while advantage to partly blocking the side channels either with a vertical or horizontal valiance panel between the side pod and the outer fence, or using a hybrid of the R15's current side channels and a pontoon fender solution like the R8 and R10 using perhaps a F1 style barge board to divert some of the air out a vent in the side fence? May be a bit of work, but will save Audi from a total detail redesign with the R15 that'll only last maybe one year unless the R15 is given a waiver(like the R8 in '06) to run in the ALMS in 2011.

And by mild revision, what would you mean-like the pontoon fenders beind added to the R8 in 2001, or the "Spa wings" on the R10 in '08? Something of that nature as far as major changes(major, but doing away with a redesign)?

It's not a matter of blocking or diverting airflow to reduce drag. That also reduces L/D efficiency, so yeah you'd take drag off but also lots of downforce. Thus you'd pair the drag down to Le Mans levels but at the costs of much less optimized dowonforce. So there would be no point in using the channel concept as it would no longer be relevant at Le Mans or with ACO 2011 engine regulations.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

confirmation from speedtv broadcasting of the rolex 24 hours that Lucas Luhr will not be part of the LeMans driving lineup. Luhr's contract is in jeopardy.

interesting is that the wording Luhr and Rockenfeller use to describe how they were allowed to run the Rolex 24 "released". But i still think rockenfeller is going to stay. Strange how Rocky crashes and stays but Luhr crashes and gets axed( pretty sure there was more consideration than that). Premat should'nt have even been in the linup and i assume he's the first guy they had no doubt about axing.

Dindo Capello's a bit of a mystery.
They surely woudn't get rid of him and leave him to race Audi R8 LMS cars around the nurburgring.

Lotterer was very impressive at Lemans in the R10.

Wasn't Treluyer the one who destroyed the Peugeot?

Fassler i don't really know how he'll be . He was good in the corvette at Lemans. If anything i would have went for Antonio Garcia.

How interesting possibly a Dumas, Bernhard, Rockenfeller lineup.

1. Capello,McNish,Kristensen(injured)
2.Dumas,Bernhard,Rockenfeller
3.Lotterer,Fassler,Treluyer

Treluyer was in the Peugeot when it crashed. It seems to be universally acknowledged that the accident was not his fault at all, so your comment is not really fair.

I would have no qualms about taking Fassler over Garcia. The former has a good deal of experience in prototypes and has acquitted himself well - the latter has no (non-DP) prototype experience. Beyond his trial in the R10, Fassler has been very impressive both in the Swiss Spirit Courage and more recently for Speedy in the LMP1 Lola-Aston.

[Bentley03]

In an article on Endurance-Info.com, news that Audi will now debut the R15+ at the 8hr LMS season opener at Paul Ricard in early April. Good decision, in my opinion, and a chance for them to evaluate the car's Le Mans credentials on the Mistral.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

In an article on Endurance-Info.com, news that Audi will now debut the R15+ at the 8hr LMS season opener at Paul Ricard in early April. Good decision, in my opinion, and a chance for them to evaluate the car's Le Mans credentials on the Mistral.

My thoughts too.
Paul Ricard is much more like Le Mans than Sebring, which makes it a ideal run for a new car.
Peugeot tested the 908 many times there before going to any other circuit.

[Mal]

Here is the press release:

http://www.allanmcnish.com/blog/2010...-castellet.asp

They say they have registered for the entire Le Mans series but stress that it should not be interpreted they they will be running the whole series - but Dr Ullrich does say "'at the moment' we are running just Paul Ricard, Spa and Silverstone'

The quote 'at the moment' does leave the door open a little I guess.

[isynge]

With running three races it does give them the potential, with a bit of lck, to win the title, even with no-shows at a couple of rounds - especially if you figure Peugeot will take points off regular season long entrants at Spa.

That should be enough to warrant putting in a season long entry if nothing else.

[Mockenrue]

From Fourtitude:

We've found what we believe to be the first publicly available photos of the so-called Audi R15 'plus', the latest evolution of the Audi R15 TDI that will compete in the 2010 24 Hours of Le Mans. The Dindo Capello Fan Club posted these shots to TweetPic and shared them via twitter less than an hour ago.









So What Do We Think?
The Dindo fan club is directly linked to Dindo so we don't question the legitimacy of the pics. They appear to have been taken in Sebring and that is consistent with a 24-hour test session Audi Sport held last weekend at the Florida track. When we first learned of the session we scrambled to see about getting a photographer on site though we eventually believed only the old R15 TDI wearing some new components would appear for a test session planned more to provide a shakedown run for Audi's latest driving trio of Fassler, Lotterer and Treluyer. From the look of the photos, this car has some differences to the nose design and may be the full 2010 spec though we can't entirely be sure. Still, the DindoFC twitpic account does list it as the 'plus'.
Check out the Dindo Fan Club twitpic account page via the link below.


http://twitpic.com/1173mq

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by CTD

My thoughts too.
Paul Ricard is much more like Le Mans than Sebring, which makes it a ideal run for a new car.
Peugeot tested the 908 many times there before going to any other circuit.

Sebring is not used in the set-up (similarity vein) for Le Mans, it is used to break the car (component test)!
That is one of the reasons it/they were testing at Sebring this week, I would think.




L.P.

[MihokS5]

Can anyone notice any differences in this car that was at Sebring? It looks like the same aero from LM...

link to my flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31332538@N07/

More pics here:

http://robmurrayphotography.smugmug....78339490_hzxMg

[HORNDAWG]

No, but neither set of pics let us see into the nose of the car.






L.P.

[Ur Q 83]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

Can anyone notice any differences in this car that was at Sebring? It looks like the same aero from LM...

link to my flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31332538@N07/

More pics here:

http://robmurrayphotography.smugmug....78339490_hzxMg

I keep on thinking there are changes but I think it’s just the colour playing tricks. But one ( very small ) change I can spot is a small NACA duct on the inboard side of the passenger ‘Roll Hoop’/engine cover ( you see it on the rearward shot ).

Anyway I don’t think the R15plus will look that different from the ’09 LM spec R15 apart from the rear with the new ACO louvers and lights.

[Audi Racer]

did anyone else notice the Acura-ARX-01c I think thats it because it had a number 1 on the side of the car which is for the championship winning team.