[LM24] Toyota plans Le Mans return with hybrid!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

My only worry, is that the S102 hasnt been run in anger since Le Mans 2008. You cant win enduranceracing without experience and data, just ask any Japanese team.

What if Toyota made updates to the S102 and then called it something different the way Acura did with the Courage. So while the S102 hasn't turned a wheel since LeMans maybe a Toyota version has been testing. Just a bit of wishful thinking on my part, but who knows?

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Fixed that for you.

What happened with my post?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

My only worry, is that the S102 hasnt been run in anger since Le Mans 2008. You cant win enduranceracing without experience and data, just ask any Japanese team.

As far back as the Silverstone LMS race, it was said Toyota had already been out testing, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the Le Mans chassis.

I wouldn't think Toyota would publicaly launch a program without testing beforehand, particularly with new hybrid technology.

How many times did the 908 hybrid test in secret before it's public rollout?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by deggis

Does this have any other source than the TMSF next week and an assumption?

Sams visited Dome and has contacts over there.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Mal

Wasnt there a rumour by the Bear that they are heading for ALMS?

Murphy's reported - and sorted - rumors about Dome, about Toyota, Nissan, and other Asian manufacturers. Here are a couple that are relevant to the discussion of a Toyota entry.

April 1, 2008:

So what – aside from Tata on the Indian sub-continent – is going on in Asia? Connor was told the Skyline is well and truly dead – if it were ever alive – as a North American racing program. In fact, they aren’t happy at all in Ginsu about the proposed Super GT engine rules, and could well dump that program, too.

Kia? No buzz at all. Subaru? It’s been two years since Connor heard about an idea to put the turbo rally engine in the still-unseen Panhard. Hyundai? More a case of why they should, than anyone hearing they will.

Murphy’s pick? Folks flew from Atlanta and met with a kabushiki kaisha in Aichi. Will a second try have a better outcome?

July 2, 2008:

Dome-Toyota-Dome-Honda-Dome-Nissan. Selling customer cars isn’t Dome’s business model. They said so themselves. They also have written that it’s the company’s objective to “become the world’s leading racing constructor.” Dome’s business is contract engineering, design, and production of race cars. So, they’ll build you something if you contract them to do so. They’ll build for themselves. RFH was an anomaly that Dome says was a “substitute” for Dome’s own participation at Le Mans in 2006. An enigma wrapped in a mystery? Not really. Murphy’s bottom line: Dome will race it’s own car, but it will not sell and support it. Call it marketing. (Dome calls it “a demonstration.”) However, if you are a manufacturer and want to sign a contract for a car with your name on it…

If Toyota's entry is a hybrid, it's headed for Le Mans, certainly, and the ALMS probably. The visit to Aichi Murphy mentioned in April was by a technical scrutineer, not an executive, and by IMSA, not by the ACO. There's more to come...

[deggis]

Originally Posted by JAG

Sams visited Dome and has contacts over there.

Ok.

Btw, anyone remember this? (From July, Dome saying they will use Judd next year). Good liars?

[deggis]

Schedule:
http://www.tmsf.jp/schedule/index.html
http://www.tmsf.jp/schedule/paddock.html

Japanese Samurai, could you translate if there is something related?

[CTD]

http://translate.google.dk/translate...-8&sl=ja&tl=en
Google translated!!
Watch the Flash Video running!
Looks like Toyota got some Japanese F1 drives to race LMP's!
-
But unfortunately not all had gotten translated, so hope we can get some one to do it!. a lot of information is still hidden from the western eye!

[Japanese Samurai]

http://www.tmsf.jp/schedule/index.html
<In the racing course>
08:30 Nez cup Vitz(Yaris) race 2008 grand final
10:15 Toyota 2000GT,Toyota sport800 running with spectator
10:45 Welcome ceremony
11:05 Toyota F1 car opening running
11:15 Nurburgring special running(Nurburgring 24h race car?)
11:45 NASCAR special running
12:05 Drifting extream
12:30 iQ performance stage
12:45 Racing circuit taxi
13:00 Racing car shuffle
13:20 Challenge to the domestic highest category(Formula Nippon car?)
13:35 Racing circuit safari (park)
14:00 Super GT super battle
14:30 Racing circuit taxi
15:00 iQ gymkhana(autocross)
15:10 Toyota F1 car special running
15:30 Finale

Another link is no relation(time schedule of racing driver's talk show etc).

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

http://www.tmsf.jp/schedule/index.html
<In the racing course>
08:30 Nez cup Vitz(Yaris) race 2008 grand final
10:15 Toyota 2000GT,Toyota sport800 running with spectator
10:45 Welcome ceremony
11:05 Toyota F1 car opening running
11:15 Nurburgring special running(Nurburgring 24h race car?)
11:45 NASCAR special running
12:05 Drifting extream
12:30 iQ performance stage
12:45 Racing circuit taxi
13:00 Racing car shuffle
13:20 Challenge to the domestic highest category(Formula Nippon car?)
13:35 Racing circuit safari (park)
14:00 Super GT super battle
14:30 Racing circuit taxi
15:00 iQ gymkhana(autocross)
15:10 Toyota F1 car special running
15:30 Finale

Another link is no relation(time schedule of racing driver's talk show etc).

Interesting. Are (detuned) GT300 cars allowed in the 24 hours of Nurburgring? Or a hybrid powered Toyota/Lexus? This year Frentzen took already part with a hybrid Gumpart Apollo car.

[The359]

Lexus ran their LF-A at the Nurburgring 24.

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by JAG

So is Toyota go?

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...mans-2009.html

Impossible for Le Mans 2009, as hybrid won't be allowed yet

[zac510]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Impossible for Le Mans 2009, as hybrid won't be allowed yet

Demonstration only? Still good marketing..

[Sarthe82]

Originally Posted by zac510

Demonstration only? Still good marketing..

The ACO have said you can enter LMS with a hybrid and not score points, and obviously Peugeot have one up and running, seems a short hop to an LM entry to me, especially if they're struggling for entries as could well be the case.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Impossible for Le Mans 2009, as hybrid won't be allowed yet

I suggest you read the notice at the bottom of page 3.
http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans..._regl09_gb.pdf



L.P.

[CTD]

Which also mean that Peugeot cant win Le Mans with a Hybrid!. But it will be a really good test!

[zac510]

Having some other manufacturer competition and maybe even Corsa there will mean that they are less likely to sand bag too, so we'll get a better representation of the hybrid technology at work.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by CTD

Which also mean that Peugeot cant win Le Mans with a Hybrid!. But it will be a really good test!

An idea of a ghost car taking the chequered flag first but not being officially shown in the results is fascinating though.

[CTD]

Really!, and if a Audi finish second, it's going to be quite an aftermatch!

[TWK]

Originally Posted by deggis

An idea of a ghost car taking the chequered flag first but not being officially shown in the results is fascinating though.

In my view it's always a stupid idea to allow a non-conforming car - especially one that could win overall - to run at all. It cheapens the so-called "real" winner. Daytona did that once, and the IMSA winner was beaten. That cheapened the series in the eyes of the fan. It didn't cause the later cratering of IMSA and Camel GT, but it certainly didn't help.

[CTD]

Well, how many possible hybrid cars does we actually have in 2009?.
1-2 Peugeot?.
1-2-3-4 Zytek/Ginetta (Corsa)?
1-2 Toyota/Dome?
It would be enough to run there own class at Le Mans!.
And if both Peugeot and Toyota push ACO, i believe we would see a possibility of Hybrids winning overall in 2009!.

[The359]

I think only one Ginetta-Zytek Q10. I don't recall ASM's new car having the same hybrid technology as Corsa, probably because ASM would rather fight for points.

[Aslak Vind]

What is the scope of LM hybrid technology?

- Just to run it and claim the publicity?
- Just to run it, and get more fuel mileage?
- Just to run it, and get more torque out of corners?
- To run it and prove it superior?

My guess: - Just to run it and claim the publicity..

[Kai]

I would agree with you there, and then by the time they can score points and win LM they should have all the kinks worked out and be as competitive as possible.

[Aslak Vind]

Yessir!

When we reach that point, there should be put out a fuel consumption maximum for the hybrid cars. If not, there is really not that much point in running them, apart from maturing the technology.

Hybrid cars are marketed as a good thing for the enviroment.. After all..