Bruno Injured / Replaced by Servia

[The Snout]

Through street races in the US, it doesn't really matter what you serve up to the US public, they'll still send in 100,000-200,000 over 3 days just cause there's a party on, hosted by CCWS. No party, like Milwaukee, no crowd.

I'll back away from American drivers as soon as people like Robin Miller stop listing as one of the attributes why Ryan Hunter-Reay is the perfect canidate to replace Bruno J. being that he is American. Source : Milwaukee Roundtable

Being a National Championship, I should hope the IRL gives American fans what they want to see, they have no International fallback. Fortunately, CCWS has. Most seem to be stuck in a rut that CCWS must have NASCAR type ratings in the US else it's a failure. I simply disagree.

If CCWS could get a consistent network rating in the 1.8-2.5 area in the US, it would be satisfactory. 5+ ratings are great but frankly, we don't have any event(s) in America to offer that sort of rating at this time, and while it would be nice, as ALMS has shown consistently, you don't need one , or NASCAR type ratings, to survive and have a profitable series.

[Mike.ca]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Through street races in the US, it doesn't really matter what you serve up to the US public, they'll still send in 100,000-200,000 over 3 days just cause there's a party on, hosted by CCWS. No party, like Milwaukee, no crowd.

That's worked with some venues and failed miserably in others. There has to be more than just a party atmosphere. BTW, your numbers are a bit optimistic. Toronto is one of the most successfull street races in North America. Its 3-day record was 168,000. And remember, the Canadian races benefit from the fact that there are Canadian stars.

I'll back away from American drivers as soon as people like Robin Miller stop listing as one of the attributes why Ryan Hunter-Reay is the perfect canidate to replace Bruno J. being that he is American. Source : Milwaukee Roundtable

If that was all RHR had going for him, I wouldn't want him in the N-H seat. It's only one of his attributes - but it's one that can boost the series profile in the U.S.

If CCWS could get a consistent network rating in the 1.8-2.5 area in the US, it would be satisfactory. 5+ ratings are great but frankly, we don't have any event(s) in America to offer that sort of rating at this time, and while it would be nice, as ALMS has shown consistently, you don't need one , or NASCAR type ratings, to survive and have a profitable series.

You can't have a profitable series unless you have sponsors who will pay your way. Sponsors want exposure. That means good race attendence and, more importantly, good TV numbers. No, Champ Car will never get NASCAR-like numbers. But the numbers it's getting now (0.6 for Long Beach) are the kind that send sponsors running in the other direction. If you want good TV numbers, you have to have drivers the fans want to see and good racing. We've discussed the former at length. The latter has been a problem, too. Some of the N.A. street courses don't allow for very good racing. The folks at home don't care about the party atmosphere at the circuit. They want to see good racing. They want to see passing. Good TV numbers are probably the most important thing for any series now. They attract the sponsors. A sponsored team is a team that can afford to hire the best available drivers instead of taking on less talented pay drivers. Give the TV viewers what they want, and the series will prosper.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by The Snout

[...]If CCWS could get a consistent network rating in the 1.8-2.5 area in the US, it would be satisfactory. 5+ ratings are great but frankly, we don't have any event(s) in America to offer that sort of rating at this time, and while it would be nice, as ALMS has shown consistently, you don't need one , or NASCAR type ratings, to survive and have a profitable series.

Interesting debate, fellows, keep it coming.

Just one correction: the ALMS is not (at least not yet) a profitable series.

Cheers,


Muzza

[The Snout]

If that is indeed the case Muzza then I stand corrected. However I've been led to believe via guys like Brian W Keske who have a good knowledge of ALMS that the series is in the black. And they had be reaching better ratings than CCWS consistently, though this year I believe they didn't do too well to begin with.

Mike, to answer your first two points in one go. If they just pick the best quality driver for the job, give them the equipment with good race control procedure, you'll end up with good racing for Americans or whomever is this week's crowd.

Racing became popular because of the racing, not because of these marketing genius's (if that's the spelling) who are trying to genetically engineer a tasty show. I think there's a lot to be said for putting some faith back into suvival of the fittest gets the gig, rather than lets get the driver who suits the gimmick. All only my opinion.

I agree that TV makes the difference in getting stickers onboard cars sidepods. All those stickers don't have to come from the US of A. I still maintain that rating 2s will get some US sponsors onboard. I believe Busch has some races that rate in that area which seems to serve them well. How do we get to that ? IMO, put on a quality show.

And in regard to that, your point about current street circuit designs not being conductive to good racing is valid. If they plan to use more street racing, then they should put more time into design.

[The Snout]

Actually. To take up your critical observation of the ladder system. CCWS is supposed to be overhauling it (Atlantics), making is far cheaper and more relevant to Champ Car. Yeah, fix that and get a crop of American drivers in who can afford the series and have better skills to graduate to Champ Cars, rather than being overlooked for Euro educated talent. So you end up with quality drivers for that particular audience, which flows through to being able to market better those US races using those drivers.

Guess I'm saying that doing it the above way in my opinion is the 'quality fix' I would like to see, rather than the Miller approach of dumping the local star in a car, running a few paper ads with his/her face and crossing fingers that the crowd turns out.

[Liz]

The ALMS is in the black and has been since the end of last year, from what I have heard and seen. Dr. Panoz has been emphatic about the people who spread the rumours that not only are they in the red, but that they are bankrupt and he's looking for someone to buy the series -- he says that their 'speculations' are a combination of wishful thinking and .

I don't think most people outside of websites have any idea where RHR was born or his parents either. Perhaps we could require him to wear a reproduction of his birth certificate at all times to establish his Political Correctness?

I'm with Snout on this one. May the best man, woman or troll get the seat and win the race.

[N I Tram]

Like it or not, the average US viewer wants to see US drivers. NASCAR gives them that, ChampCar doesn't. To me the IRL has a good balance - lots of talented US drivers as well as some genuine stars from overseas. No one can say that Kanaan, Wheldon, Scheckter, Castroneves etc. don't add to the series, it's just a case of getting the balance right. And maybe this was an ideal opportunity, although clearly Servia did well and deserved the chance.

The other problems which are percieved with the current ChampCar driver line-up (whether they are accurate or not is irrelevent; people think they are the case and don't watch as a result), are that the drivers have bought their way into the series directly or indirectly (Philippe, Marshall and co have, Bourdais and Wilson clearly haven't), and are only there because they can't get into F1, and would leave in a second if they got a chance.

[climb]

excellent point N I T

[macdaddy]

and are only there because they can't get into F1, and would leave in a second if they got a chance.

You'd be hard-pressed to name any driver, from any series, who wouldn't!

[Snrub]

Interesting peice from SpeedTV:
Speaking further of good teachers, Tracy passed on some of his short-oval expertise to a willing student here at Milwaukee in ’03 when he and Oriol Servia dueled for second place all night long.

“In ’03, I passed him three times during the race and he passed me back every time on restarts,” said Servia. “That’s how you learn about restarts. I know: today I made some passes on restarts.”

IMO there's no question that Servia's oval craft has improved.

Also, Bourdais on Seriva being @ NH until Junquiera gets back:
“It’s not my decision to make, of course,” said Bourdais, “but I like Oriol. I’ve known him a long time and I think he deserves the chance to finally drive a good car. And he proved today what he can do.
Bourdais deserves credit for backing a guy who just handing his butt to him. Actually, Bourdais is always very complementary of drivers when they beat him.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/17343/

[Alfa Fan]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

You'd be hard-pressed to name any driver, from any series, who wouldn't!

Mika Hakkinen

[macdaddy]

When it comes to PT, a better restart (or cold-tires) teacher you'd never find. Milwaukee is a testament to that.

Also, I was generalizing, Alfa Fan. I know there are exceptions, likely quite numerous, but I was just trying to make a point.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

When it comes to PT, a better restart (or cold-tires) teacher you'd never find. Milwaukee is a testament to that.

No kidding. Even Vasser made some comments about worrying about PT's ability on the restarts. The scary thing is that he seems to be getting even better on cold tires. With the possible exception of JPM, I don't think anyone in the world could touch PT on cold tires. I guess if you're Servia and you get passed three times by the same guy in a short period of time, you'll probably get some insights into how he does it.

My personal opinion is that Bourdais has learned from PT as well. He's become much more agressive and he doesn't sit back for an opporuntiy to present itself. He's stated several times how he admired PT's agression. I remember back in 2003 before Montreal Bourdais was getting POed at PT passing him by muscling his way in and Bourdais said he would make sure PT didn't get away with it again. Then on the first lap PT passed Bourdais in a very agressive manner. Of late you may have noticed that Bourdais is seldom passed by PT. I've noticed that CC drivers in general have upped their level of agressiveness. I really think it's partially due to PT setting the tone for the series.

[Tim Northcutt]

PT is definitely one of the best....

But I'd match Buddy Lazier with anybody anywhere..that's my opinion, FWIW....he was amazing at Indy on restarts with an underpowered car, yet stayed in the hunt all day long due to his abilities take spots on restarts and to hold his postions without blocking....

[WapFlap]

I haven't seen Ricardo Zonta's name yet, and there are rumours going on a few forumboards that he will replace Servia the next race. So, another driver on the list.

[Kicking-back]

Zonta is tied to Toyota F1 and will not be released by them

[macdaddy]

What names haven't been bounced around? From Villeneuve to Zonta to Verstappen, from Haberfeld to Papis to Valiante...

I'd like to see Servia stick with it for the rest of the season, that much is for sure.

An on-air interview with Dale Coyne during Saturday's telecast had him confirming a second car come Portland. He made note that Servia's status is still "in the air"...

[enemy-ace]

With such a hotly contested F1 season I really can't see how any current F1 teams would want to relinquish any member of their team. From a purely selfish standpoint I would like to see Servia back at Coyne; because I am afraid that otherwise he will be replaced by a less talented pay driver.

[Mike.ca]

Originally Posted by Liz

I don't think most people outside of websites have any idea where RHR was born or his parents either. Perhaps we could require him to wear a reproduction of his birth certificate at all times to establish his Political Correctness?

I'm with Snout on this one. May the best man, woman or troll get the seat and win the race.

Once again, it has nothing to do with political correctness. Nor, as I have already explained, is it a matter of choosing untalented drivers of one nationality over talented drivers of another. It's all about having talented drivers who appeal to the fans - especially to the casual and potential fan. You may not care if there are drivers from your own country in the field (let alone leading the field). Fine. But remember, the people who read and post on internet racing forums like this one aren't the average, casual racing fan and we aren't non-fans who might possibly become fans. Seeing "one of our own" up at the front may not matter to you, but it does matter to them. I can tell you that at Montreal last year the people who sat near me knew full well who the Canadian drivers were (and who the Quebec drivers were) and it did matter to them. If it is to succeed, CCWS needs to bring in more fans, new fans. The tiny minority who inhabit forums like this aren't enough. We have to attract more of the casual racing fans and the potential racing fans. We need them buying tickets. We need them watching on TV. The Grand-Am example is quite instructive. G-A brings in star drivers from NASCAR, the IRL and CCWS for its big events. They aren't all Americans, but there a lot of very popular and competitive Americans - which only makes sense for a series that has so many of its races in the U.S. The stars sell the show. The series as a whole benefits. Champ Car could learn a thing or two from Grand-Am's example.

[Mike.ca]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Racing became popular because of the racing, not because of these marketing genius's (if that's the spelling) who are trying to genetically engineer a tasty show. I think there's a lot to be said for putting some faith back into suvival of the fittest gets the gig, rather than lets get the driver who suits the gimmick. All only my opinion.

But remember that when CART became popular, it was because it had a bunch of talented Americans who appealed to the American market. Look at the history of any successful racing series and you will find competitors who appealed to the fans. Would racing be what it is in Italy if not for Nazzaro, Bordino, Nuvolari, Varzi, etc.? Same in America. From Barney Oldfield to Mario Andretti, the drivers were the public face of the sport, the focus of its promotion. The "survival of the fittest" is fine - but was RHR unfit for the N-H ride? No, of course not. The real problem with the "survival of the fittest" is in trying to apply it to a series where even a top team like Forsythe has to shed more talented drivers to take a pay driver. How do you fix that? More sponsorship requires better ratings, which require giving the people something they want to see - which certainly does not mean putting untalented drivers in top teams.

[The Snout]

Lance Armstrong proved that you only need one winning participant for a nation to follow you, not a whole field of them. Rebuild Atlantics, in relation to the US market get the best US drivers, only has to be a couple who can race Bourdais etc and beat him consistently, and the American market will have it's Champion. And more importantly, have a farm system to begin producing the quality generation after generation. The best quality is priority one.

[Mike.ca]

I agree. One star would do it. Two or three would be even better. But you need that one. Last week, they had a chance to get a very talented American driver into a top ride and (for whatever reason - I still don't think we know the whole story) they blew it.
Atlantic certainly needs rebuilding. The whole feeder formula system here needs some kind of rationalization. Star Mazda has some great young drivers. But then there have always been quality drivers in the N.A. feeder series. The problem is that many couldn't get a peek at CART/CCWS. Toyota-Atlantic issued a big press release recently - all about how well its former drivers did in the Indy 500. Will the latest generation of up-and-coming Americans have any better luck with Champ Car?

[evo]

Originally Posted by Mike.ca

One star would do it.

I'm proof of that. Back in the early 90's I followed NASCAR more than anything. I watched the odd CART Indycar race, and I do remember Rick Mears passing Mikey on the outside to win Indy in 91. But the driver that really got me into open wheel was Scott Goodyear. When he finished second in the 92 Indy 500, that was it for me. I was an open wheel guy from then on. That was right about the same time Tracy came in too.

So drivers from your country are important to casual fans... lest they give up on Open Wheel and follow NASCAR.

For the record, I find NASCAR fairly boring these days, after I discovered real racing.

[enemy-ace]

I don't think having RHR in at newman-Haas would have helped anything. Odds are that he would have been thoroughly outclassed by Bourdais. If he was lucky, given the team, he would have been marginally more competitive than Almendinger. He is having a hard enough time with Glock. I agree that having competitive americans in the field is essential, but RHR isn't the one. Yet! Maybe in time.

[Snrub]

How many people actually watch live Tour de France coverage in the US? Up here it's relegated to the outdoor life network and before that I don't think it was even available. Lance Armstrong is a freak situation. A guy who was given up for dead coming back and becoming the greatest cyclist the world has ever known. In no other sport in recent history can I think of anyone who comes close to that. Maybe if Danica can get multiple wins of the Nextel cup, F1 WDC, Indy 500, Le Mans and sets the land speed record she'd surpass Lance Armstrong.

For the record I do agree with your point. It's going to take multple Americans consistantly fighting for wins and two legitimately in the championship for CC to have an acceptable level of Americans. I think AJ can do that, but we need 3 AJs, not just one. Team strength fluctuations require that there is perhaps 1-2 others who are capable of winning, but not necessarly ever going to win a championship.

Go back to the early 90s when there was Unser Jr, Mears, both Andrettis, Sulliven and Rahal. There's a name recognition factor. Even for ignorant new watchers fans, they're going to pick early favorites based on certain points of interest. Hearing names they may have heard of or achievements will do this. All of those guys had that. It's why today they mention things like past champions of CC and other series. I'm not saying that level is required again, but it provides an example of the direction things need to go.