ALMS/Grand Am Fusion 2014

[Maelochs]

Please, Jonerz, don't give the management any ideas ... your suggestions might actually seem sound to that bunch.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

How about we start a poll instead?

Nope we are starting a pole.

[DeathOrGlory]

Where's the dancer? We already have the pole.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

You can make it at least two, probably three or four who will certainly be watching in 2014 regardless of the rules.

They'd have to announce John Deere as the sole supplier to the DP class, with the old Indy Lights chassis BoP'd into some sort of sub-tractor class (perhaps they can cut holes in the monocoque for drivers to stick their feet through and run like in the Flintstones. The banking at Daytona would have to be avoided... by both classes, really) for me not to watch.

But in all seriousness, I hope they don't screw up the rules...

Chris

I'd probably watch that but only if they were forced to use the stock tractor chassis and cover it with Corvette bodywork.

My guess is 35-40. I think we will see many teams do something else or merge to save cost.

[MitchZ06]

How many teams? Atleast 1.

[Fogelhund]

John Dagys ‏@johndagys
Stallings: "My own expectation is that DP will be the main event [in '14]. I don't know that, but that's a pretty good bet."

Hmmm.... ok, last one out, turn the lights out.

[HORNDAWG]

Hmm, and yet from the 30th....

Scot Elkins ?@scotelkins
@kyle_hall1844 thx 4 the ideas brother- still need to keep the pc class-we r making good prog on balancing p2 w dp



L.P.

[PointDSM]

Am I on the right forum???

The same exact posts guys...seriously!?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

Am I on the right forum???

The same exact posts guys...seriously!?

L.P.

[Maelochs]

Obviously they believe in what they say.

[Scooter185]

If the imsa screws the merger up, the WEC is going to get a decent windfall of teams and fans methinks. If they can keep all, or most, of the protos together through the transitional era I think they will be ok, but if lmp2 sees its demise....

[Mal]

Whilst GA has the car count ALMS has the fans - fans create revenue and attract sponsors - lets hope common sense prevails

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Mal

Whilst GA has the car count ALMS has the fans - fans create revenue and attract sponsors - lets hope common sense prevails

If the top class is balanced to P-2 performance levels, no matter what current class of cars it ends up comprised of, everything should work out, IMO.



L.P.

[Tzyghan]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

If the top class is balanced to P-2 performance levels, no matter what current class of cars it ends up comprised of, everything should work out, IMO.

I don't know... Daytona Prototypes are a little bit lower than P2; Audi, Ferrari, and this year Aston Martin comes to GT class with their GT3 cars. Only some changes taking DP to P2 and G-A GT to ALMS GTC (like in ELMS, where GT3 cars were taken instead of Porsche and Ferrari cup-cars) - and in car regulations everything is done. True or false?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Tzyghan

I don't know... Daytona Prototypes are a little bit lower than P2; Audi, Ferrari, and this year Aston Martin comes to GT class with their GT3 cars. Only some changes taking DP to P2 and G-A GT to ALMS GTC (like in ELMS, where GT3 cars were taken instead of Porsche and Ferrari cup-cars) - and in car regulations everything is done. True or false?

I am saying as long as the top class remains at the performance level of P-2 that everything else will be fairly straight forward on how it should be slotted in and the classes merged to make this merger work.


L.P.

[Jacques Rabbit]

I don't think "DP is the main event" precludes P2 and PC (or even DeltaWing) from being there in the same class. It just means the class will likely have more DP entries (as more DPs currently race) and be equalized more toward the DP. What Stallings says and what Elkins says are not in conflict with each other. The top class will be based on DP with as many inclusions as they can possibly make. We've known this since about two days after Dagys broke the rumors in September.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

I don't think "DP is the main event" precludes P2 and PC (or even DeltaWing) from being there in the same class. It just means the class will likely have more DP entries (as more DPs currently race) and be equalized more toward the DP. What Stallings says and what Elkins says are not in conflict with each other. The top class will be based on DP with as many inclusions as they can possibly make. We've known this since about two days after Dagys broke the rumors in September.

I think it is a huge mistake to "be equalized more toward the DP" as you say, for the simple fact that PC is faster than DP except for maybe on a Roval. The DP's need to make the lions share of, if not all of, the movement in the equalization process.



L.P.

[Rodger Davies]

facts of the matter are, the two most 'successful' classes on show here are ALMS' GT and GA's DP, so we're assuming these will be part of the new series.

The two sets of cars are not dissimilar in terms of speed, but the GTs are used to being amongst the slowest in a race, and the DPs are used to winning races. Logical thing is to slow the GTEs and bring P2 cars into the DP speed range, but the complication is the ACO and that, for those GT cars to be built, they are nearly fixed in terms of a rules package.

DPs are unique to this category, and thus speeding them up towards P2 speed, and slowing the P2 cars a bit seems the most logical outcome for the time being.

But we all know what part logic plays in sportscars: none. If it did, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Slowing any race car down artificially seems counter-intuitive. The first couple of years will be a mess trying to keep all parties happy. The real test is what they do with the new regs once this generation of cars are done. That's what I hold out hope for. Until then, for me, it's WEC time. If they are not in step with ACO/FIA global platform for GT and if the prototypes aren't eligible elsewhere as well (like the current DP's) you will see this series marginalized, and quick. BMW said it already re: the new Z4 for the ALMS, they're aren't going to design a bespoke racing engine for one series.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Slowing any race car down artificially seems counter-intuitive.

So true, yet that has been racing since 1920s.

I like Rodger Davies assumptions. Very pragmatic and sensible. A lot of other posts suggest a decent number of entries. That will be a good start that can be tailored over the next couple of years down to less categories.

So, do we need a poll?

[HORNDAWG]

Well it certainly does not sound as if the mfgs want a single GT class;

In his Night of Champions speech, Hatz underlined the importance of GT racing for Porsche and pleaded for two different GT categories for works-supported professional sport and for customer sport.

“In factory sport the regulations must be based on technology while in customer racing, a stronger alignment of the relative strength by Balance of Performance measures is legitimate.”


http://www.alms.com/articles/porsche...sed-works-team



L.P.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Well it certainly does not sound as if the mfgs want a single GT class;

In his Night of Champions speech, Hatz underlined the importance of GT racing for Porsche and pleaded for two different GT categories for works-supported professional sport and for customer sport.

“In factory sport the regulations must be based on technology while in customer racing, a stronger alignment of the relative strength by Balance of Performance measures is legitimate.”


http://www.alms.com/articles/porsche...sed-works-team



L.P.

That has been Porsche's point of view from the beginning of the current saga - And with Porsche one of the very, very few manufacturers to actually have a motorsport arm that makes money it is likely a view that needs to be listened to and understood!

[lms]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Well it certainly does not sound as if the mfgs want a single GT class;

In his Night of Champions speech, Hatz underlined the importance of GT racing for Porsche and pleaded for two different GT categories for works-supported professional sport and for customer sport.

“In factory sport the regulations must be based on technology while in customer racing, a stronger alignment of the relative strength by Balance of Performance measures is legitimate.”


http://www.alms.com/articles/porsche...sed-works-team

L.P.

not really against gt3 and gte merging. sounds like gt pro and am classes (nothing was said against a common ruleset for gte and gt3). kinda like gtepro and am now: same rules, different classes for amateur and pro drivers

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by lms

not really against gt3 and gte merging. sounds like gt pro and am classes (nothing was said against a common ruleset for gte and gt3). kinda like gtepro and am now: same rules, different classes for amateur and pro drivers

I read it as meaning GTE Factory, and GTE Privateer. Don't come into the factory category unless you are willing to get outspent and out developed by major factory teams. You better bring deep pockets and a development deal.

Chris

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

That has been Porsche's point of view from the beginning of the current saga - And with Porsche one of the very, very few manufacturers to actually have a motorsport arm that makes money it is likely a view that needs to be listened to and understood!

Well lets hope that the message is realized by the ACO and FIA.


L.P.