WEC FIA World Endurance Championship - Page 88

gwyllion · 10 Oct 2012, 18:31 (Ref:3149573)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Anything in the article about running Sebring?

That word is the same in German

And no it is not mentioned at all in the interview.

Nigma · 10 Oct 2012, 19:51 (Ref:3149598)

I just asked Midweek Motorsport if they thought Oreca would run this years TS030 next year and they straight up said no, as they've heard from the horses mouth themselves when they visited TMG in Cologne. Toyota are also going to to struggle to run two cars next year, nevermind trying to run three at Le Mans.

Also, next week on MWM will be a special from when Hindy and Nick visited TMG. They've promised something special but wouldn't say much else on it.

**Bentley03** · 10 Oct 2012, 19:54 (Ref:3149600)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I posted links the first 4 parts in the Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) thread.

Thank you......I'll open my eyes next time!

Toy89CV · 10 Oct 2012, 20:11 (Ref:3149602)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigma

I just asked Midweek Motorsport if they thought Oreca would run this years TS030 next year and they straight up said no, as they've heard from the horses mouth themselves when they visited TMG in Cologne. Toyota are also going to to struggle to run two cars next year, nevermind trying to run three at Le Mans.

Also, next week on MWM will be a special from when Hindy and Nick visited TMG. They've promised something special but wouldn't say much else on it.

All reports come from the same TMG press day/s the other week, all are from the horses mouth. Rob Leupen is the TMG head and where the customer story originates, Radio LM were quoting Pascal Vasselon who is the technical director.

Note TMG made a distinction between Oreca running a chassis and the possibility of customer supplied cars, Oreca would be an ofshoot of the factory team. Customer cars are at least a couple of years away if given green light.

deggis · 10 Oct 2012, 22:16 (Ref:3149651)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

Their budget is around 80 million Euros, excluding marketing as that is done via the local Toyota subsidiaries.

Was he talking about this year or next year? Google translates the question to: "How large must the budget, if you want WEC run including Le Mans?"

If this year, surprisingly high figure, imho, considering how much they've been saying they have a limited budget and of course the fact it's only a 1-car program. I guess starting things costs money then.

As a reference, other budget figures mentioned in somewhat trusted sources:

Audi Sport 2010: 100M eur (70M for LMPs, 30M DTM)
// http://archives.tomorrownewsf1.com/b...rt-100me-14412

Peugept 2011: 75M eur (20M from Total)
// http://www.sportune.fr/sport-busines...-de-80me-49254
// http://archives.tomorrownewsf1.com/p...e-partir-26174

Wolfgang Durheimer on RCE May 2012: "To compete in Le Mans you can do it with 50 million [Euro], and a World Championship would double that."
// http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issu...t&prev=si&p=83

carsten66 · 10 Oct 2012, 23:15 (Ref:3149658)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

Was he talking about this year or next year? Google translates the question to: "How large must the budget, if you want WEC run including Le Mans?"...

Unfortunately the question was not specific related to the budget of Toyota and so the answer given expectedly was more vague...

He just said that running an LMP1 program in WEC including Le Mans you need a budget around 80 million Euros + drive train + marketing...

Coach Ep · 12 Oct 2012, 08:19 (Ref:3150296)

World champions in all classes next year: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103317

Surely aimed at increasing the number of cars in GTE.

Looking forward to the amateur champ...

kober · 12 Oct 2012, 10:00 (Ref:3150341)

It's actually a World Cup, and a couple of Endurance Trophies. The 2013 titles' structure will look as the following:

- FIA Driver's World Championship (all drivers eligible)
- FIA LMP1 Manufacturers' World Championship,

- FIA World Cup for LMGTE Drivers (all GTE drivers eligible) <-- NEW
- FIA LMGTE Manufacturers' World Cup

- FIA Endurance Trophy for LMP2 Drivers <-- NEW
- FIA Endurance Trophy for GTE-Am Drivers <-- NEW
- FIA Endurance Trophy For Private LMP1 Teams,
- FIA Endurance Trophy For LMP2 Teams,
- FIA Endurance Trophy For LMGTE Pro Teams,
- FIA Endurance Trophy For LMGTE Am Teams.

In my opinion the structure makes sense - every driver and every team has something to fight for

deggis · 12 Oct 2012, 14:03 (Ref:3150428)

What a *beep* mess.

And still the best (worst) part: private teams in P1 and manufacturer teams in P1 do not have a common championship besides the driver's championship.

Simmi · 12 Oct 2012, 15:09 (Ref:3150451)

Agree that the lack of a common P1 championship amplifies the divide - but at least it allows them to fight for something.

I don't really see how people can criticise to be honest or say it's too complicated.

It's multi-class sportscar racing and it's a world championship. Each class should be rewarded.

NaBUru38 · 12 Oct 2012, 15:18 (Ref:3150452)

How about this?

- FIA Endurance World Championship for LMP1 Manufacturers
- FIA Endurance World Championship for GTE Manufacturers
- FIA Endurance World Championship for LMP1 Teams (no works teams)
- FIA Endurance World Championship for LMP2 Teams
- FIA Endurance World Championship for GTE-Pro Teams
- FIA Endurance World Championship for GTE-Am Teams

JAG__ · 12 Oct 2012, 15:31 (Ref:3150456)

The World Championship title is reserved for P1 manufacturers and drivers

GTE has a World Cup* title for manufacturers/drivers.

The other titles are all trophies for privateer teams/drivers.

*The GT World Championship title may still be reserved for FIA GT, or P1 manufacturers insist only P1 is considered World Champions for marketing reasons.

Fogelhund · 12 Oct 2012, 16:04 (Ref:3150465)

Don't forget.

World Championship for Blue Cars
World Championship for Red Cars
World Championship for cars with stripes.

deggis · 12 Oct 2012, 16:19 (Ref:3150471)

Everybody has to win.

JAG__ · 12 Oct 2012, 16:38 (Ref:3150475)

With four classes, at the very minimum there should be eight titles, one for the team, one for the drivers. With manufacturers represented in P1 & GTE, there'll be a title too which makes a distinction from individual teams.

The only argument I could see is the need to split GTE Pro/Am, but until the day there are two distinct GT classes, that's the way it'll be.

Canada ALMS fan · 12 Oct 2012, 17:43 (Ref:3150490)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

How about this?

- FIA Endurance World Championship for LMP1 Manufacturers
- FIA Endurance World Championship for GTE Manufacturers
- FIA Endurance World Championship for LMP1 Teams (no works teams)
- FIA Endurance World Championship for LMP2 Teams
- FIA Endurance World Championship for GTE-Pro Teams
- FIA Endurance World Championship for GTE-Am Teams

If it is done this way then the drivers of the LMP1 and GTE-Pro should be World Champions too IMO.

NaBUru38 · 13 Oct 2012, 20:41 (Ref:3151111)

Canadian ALMS fan, endurance racing is a team sport. Giving drivers titles is like giving the UEFA Champions League title to Messi and not to Villa because one played more matches than the other.

Gingers4Justice · 13 Oct 2012, 22:27 (Ref:3151162)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Canadian ALMS fan, endurance racing is a team sport. Giving drivers titles is like giving the UEFA Champions League title to Messi and not to Villa because one played more matches than the other.

I'm not sure that comparison is fair. In the Olympics, all the particpants of the team get a medal each, rather than one medal going to the whole team.

The cars don't drive themselves, and the efforts of the drivers need to be recognised, especially if you want to attract names of a high calibre.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 14 Oct 2012, 00:50 (Ref:3151236)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Canadian ALMS fan, endurance racing is a team sport. Giving drivers titles is like giving the UEFA Champions League title to Messi and not to Villa because one played more matches than the other.

In 1981 the FIA combined, the World Challenge for Endurance Drivers and the the World Championship of Makes to form two championships, why not do the same?

NaBUru38 · 14 Oct 2012, 16:27 (Ref:3151684)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I'm not sure that comparison is fair. In the Olympics, all the particpants of the team get a medal each, rather than one medal going to the whole team.

The cars don't drive themselves, and the efforts of the drivers need to be recognised, especially if you want to attract names of a high calibre.

When a racing team wins, all the team members get the recognition. With the current FIA WEC drivers title system, some drivers get the prize and some don't.

Gingers4Justice · 14 Oct 2012, 18:30 (Ref:3151766)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

When a racing team wins, all the team members get the recognition. With the current FIA WEC drivers title system, some drivers get the prize and some don't.

If you've done every race, you get the recognition, don't you?

NaBUru38 · 14 Oct 2012, 23:29 (Ref:3151915)

Chelsea's third goalkeeper got the same recognition as the first at the UEFA CL. Bernhard won't get the same recognition as Fässler this FIA WEC. It's unfair, it's a team sport.

Salamus · 14 Oct 2012, 23:34 (Ref:3151921)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Chelsea's third goalkeeper got the same recognition as the first at the UEFA CL. Bernhard won't get the same recognition as Fässler this FIA WEC. It's unfair, it's a team sport.

Bernhard has only done 1 race in the Audi all season. Fassler has competed in all races and has won 3 times this year (including Le Mans) along with Treluyer and Lotterer.

Maelochs · 15 Oct 2012, 10:35 (Ref:3152109)

So unfair---the bottle-washers and laundry slaves don't get medals too! Everyone should get a medal! Those people played their parts!

(Funny, F1 has been doing this forever and everyone just accepts it, but suddenly ... )

Look, the sport needs to be promoted in a sensible way---sensible to the fans that are essential to the sport's long-term health. Having drivers' and teams' and makes' championships creates promo opportunities, and adds to the drivers' palmares, (ego is a great motivator--these guys love to win.)

Shouldn't the designers, engineers, and mechanics get titles too? The hardest-working guys at the track are the poor mechanics who have to work 20 hours a day fixing crash damage, applying new set-ups, staying ahead of the maintenance schedule and give the drivers something with which to compete---shouldn't they get even bigger trophies?

It comes down to what's practical and understandable. People understand that the driver is the star---probably most never think that he is only a star if and after everyone else on the team is. But fans can identify with drivers a lot more readily than they can identify with the tire-changers.

Even teams needs faces to promote; people attach ideas to faces.

People who are a little more into the sport will recognize teams (Bravo Rebellion and Starworks) but I must confess I have no clue who runs Rebellion and only know Peter Barron because he has been featured in a few Grand Am interviews.

Casual fans recognize a few stars and can understand those stars being rewarded. Most casual fans probably never really think about racing as being a team sport (based on a few conversations I have had.)

Anyway ... none of this will matter because everyone will have wandered away before the first third of the podium ceremonies are done.

NaBUru38 · 15 Oct 2012, 14:01 (Ref:3152220)

If a drivers races four seasons for a major manufacturer and achieves several wins, that should make them a star. Tom Kristensen didn't need titles to get recognized., winning several 24 Hours for Audi did.

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