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6 Apr 2023, 11:28 (Ref:4150609) | #2176 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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6 Apr 2023, 11:37 (Ref:4150611) | #2177 | ||
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The answer is always the same too... A TCR car is mass-produced, good to go. It's ideal for club-level touring car racing or a mid-tier championship (see the failure of WTCR with BoP disagreements and compensation weight tussles one element of its downfall, or how TCR Australia is a few rungs below Supercars). A season is chump change in comparison to BTCC. We know this. Everyone here. A BTCC car is built by each team, using a selection of shared parts and some unique elements too (aero, induction, weight distribution etc) for a far greater cost than a purchased TCR. But, being built specifically for a championship, to its own ruleset, adds a level of prestige (and the cars are more exciting to watch, requiring a more aggressive set-up and driving style) to what is the UK's most-popular four-wheel series. Also, £500k isn't the cost of running a BTCC car, that's the cost of a top drive, at a top team, inc. a profit margin for the squad and kickbacks to the driver as a wage/commision. Finally, while the cost is significantly more, so is the exposure for sponsors and that's really what you invest in. So in total, we should be discussing total 'value' and not total 'cost'. |
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6 Apr 2023, 11:41 (Ref:4150612) | #2178 | ||
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"Although Hard possesses just three TBL entrants' licences, it is also using one owned by its former driver Carl Boardley plus two belonging to Aiden Moffat, whose Scottish team's Infinitis were based at Hard's premises for much of 2021 and 2022 and who this season has switched to the One Motorsport Honda squad." Also, at the bottom, Marcus seems to think indeed that One Motorsport does have one last driver to announce - and I trust Marcus. |
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6 Apr 2023, 11:47 (Ref:4150613) | #2179 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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6 Apr 2023, 13:01 (Ref:4150617) | #2180 | ||
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6 Apr 2023, 14:09 (Ref:4150625) | #2181 | |
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6 Apr 2023, 14:14 (Ref:4150626) | #2182 | |
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6 Apr 2023, 15:09 (Ref:4150641) | #2183 | ||
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Maybe there was a place for this a couple of years ago but now post Covid in the real world I've watched TCR and BTCC live at the track and both are exciting Tin Top racing which is what fans want to see. Infact if anything I would say TCR is more pure racing, driver and car. BTCC is gimmicky racing with its hybrid, are drivers using the hybrid or not sometimes I can see the light sometimes I can't depends on the angle, fake results, series fiddling with cars to alter results etc... |
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6 Apr 2023, 15:10 (Ref:4150642) | #2184 | |
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Posts: 460
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Very different world then though. No social media for a start, and only the hardcore fans remained. So moaning was less. As far as the championship went though, the sky had fallen down, and if Gow hadn't come back in 2003 how long would it have taken to recover the series?
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6 Apr 2023, 15:44 (Ref:4150644) | #2185 | |
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6 Apr 2023, 15:56 (Ref:4150648) | #2186 | |
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bring back Group A touring cars
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6 Apr 2023, 16:28 (Ref:4150654) | #2187 | |
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6 Apr 2023, 17:01 (Ref:4150664) | #2188 | |
Race Official
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6 Apr 2023, 17:14 (Ref:4150669) | #2189 | ||
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Also crash damage in TCR is much harder to repair than NGTC. You also dont get the live ITV4 coverage, the crowds or the media coverage. However. Even with that it is significantly cheaper. TBH i wasnt a fan of the move to hybrid to begin with but i dont feel like its had much effect on the overall show. Its there but its not over powerful or banged on about 24/7, a pleasant surprise. |
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6 Apr 2023, 17:42 (Ref:4150671) | #2190 | |
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6 Apr 2023, 18:15 (Ref:4150678) | #2191 | |
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Sad that Dynamics won't be appearing this season. I feel like we have heard it before with HMS and Parker (and more I'm sure) where they suggest they plan to be back but in reality it is never feasible for the same reasons they have to withdraw in the first place. Motorbase kept their toe in the water, very deliberately I imagine.
It's telling that Gow referenced 888 in some comments used by Autosport, and I think it's been confirmed that Dynamics have sold their Civics; probably logical in the circumstances (they're only going to depreciate in value and they've never looked the class of the field) but means they have an even bigger task seeking funding for the build of an all new model. Dynamics have a great pedigree but if they have had to let go the bulk of their team go, they don't really have that much of advantage in attracting investment, less so if they are not on the circuit this season and they will will need commitments from sponsors even sooner to get new cars built in time. I do think there is a different reaction and feeling to what happened to 888. With 888 felt like a very gradual demise whereas, whilst Dynamics weren't able to match their first generation NGTC Civic with the FK8 and lost backing from Honda (due to other factors), they seemed like a professional independent outfit and remained in the same family, so it felt like they still had roots in their origins. |
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6 Apr 2023, 18:49 (Ref:4150683) | #2192 | |||
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6 Apr 2023, 18:54 (Ref:4150684) | #2193 | |
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I think the idea that the FK8 Civic was something of a dud from Dynamics isn't really backed up by the evidence. It's won 27% of the races it's been entered, finished 3rd in the championship in consecutive years, one of those occasions being a single lap away from being the championship winning car.
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7 Apr 2023, 08:28 (Ref:4150707) | #2194 | ||
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I don't think it's been a dud but Cammish was a lap a way from winning the title because Neal nerfed Turkington in the previous race. I don't think it's ever looked the class of the field like the 3 series or the Infiniti have in recent years or like the OG NGTC Civic in it's pomp but then again in spells it's probably been as good as any other FWD car since 2018. |
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7 Apr 2023, 08:40 (Ref:4150708) | #2195 | ||
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7 Apr 2023, 08:49 (Ref:4150710) | #2196 | |||
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Posts: 5,687
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I really don't think that the Infiniti really belongs in that group; yes, it was blindingly quick in the hands of Sutton, but otherwise, apart from possibly the one, or was it two, win/s by Moffett which was/were a bit of a freak after much coaching from Sutton, it really wasn't a front runner. |
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7 Apr 2023, 08:54 (Ref:4150711) | #2197 | ||
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"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
7 Apr 2023, 08:56 (Ref:4150712) | #2198 | ||
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Quote:
Last edited by peebee2; 7 Apr 2023 at 09:07. |
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7 Apr 2023, 09:07 (Ref:4150713) | #2199 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
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So here we are for the series ahead. Really could have done a couple more teams, but it wasn't to be. I miss the days of 1 car teams competing
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
7 Apr 2023, 09:51 (Ref:4150722) | #2200 | |
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