[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[arakis]

Whoo hoo, |I say let em die

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Here we agree 100%.

probably less than you think, I am in favour of having diesels around, the sound is really amazing, (as long as no blerring petrol car passes by to deafen your ears).

[alexkiller8]

if audi didn't express to ACO the will to keep on with their TDI engines, i think that the diesel engines weren't allowed at all in 2014 rules.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

if audi didn't express to ACO the will to keep on with their TDI engines, i think that the diesel engines weren't allowed at all in 2014 rules.

Don't forget Mazda's recent announcement.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

if audi didn't express to ACO the will to keep on with their TDI engines, i think that the diesel engines weren't allowed at all in 2014 rules.

or there may be some sort of hope that Peugeot will return?

[alexkiller8]

that sheet about new regulamentation consumes is only about lmp1, the mazda new diesel engine is for lmp2 cars.
Is clear that ACO and FIA wrote the new lmp1 regulamentations (as always has been done in the past) to go along with the current manufacter wishes and the future ones involved... so, toyota isn't intersted in diesel, porsche i guess isn't as well, honda the same, GM/corvette for now is just a rumor but basicly is the last manufacter in the world intersted in diesel... the only manufacter that remain is audi, that run with diesel cars since 2006. This isn't a confirm but is a important clue that makes me think that audi will use a diesel engine also in future.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

that sheet about new regulamentation consumes is only about lmp1, the mazda new diesel engine is for lmp2 cars.
Is clear that ACO and FIA wrote the new lmp1 regulamentations (as always has been done in the past) to go along with the current manufacter wishes and the future ones involved... so, toyota isn't intersted in diesel, porsche i guess isn't as well, honda the same, GM/corvette for now is just a rumor but basicly is the last manufacter in the world intersted in diesel... the only manufacter that remain is audi, that run with diesel cars since 2006. This isn't a confirm but is a important clue that makes me think that audi will use a diesel engine also in future.

As a sort of "by the way" statement ACO announced that LMP2 cars can have diesel engines as of next year. As the LMP2 regulations are with us to stay for a while, the diesels will still be around. I also picked up that Audi has a state of the art TSFI ready, in case they want to switch to petrol.

[The Badger]

Oh Henk ..... your making my day better , an up to date TFSI ..... READY !!!

[jo1998sh]

With LMP1 becoming coupe only, I hope LMP2 becomes open-top only as I don't particularly like the coupe LMP2 cars plus this would give a big advantage when identifying cars: e.g. the oak LMP1s and LMP2s that almost look the same.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by henk4

probably less than you think, I am in favour of having diesels around, the sound is really amazing, (as long as no blerring petrol car passes by to deafen your ears).

I'm sorry to hear that.

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I'm sorry to hear that.

I thought you'd be a fan of sixes? The R18 really sounds great when you can hear the grunty engine note above the turbo whoosh (and other cars), better than the dull as dishwater 3.4 V8s.

[lms]

Originally Posted by jo1998sh

With LMP1 becoming coupe only, I hope LMP2 becomes open-top only as I don't particularly like the coupe LMP2 cars plus this would give a big advantage when identifying cars: e.g. the oak LMP1s and LMP2s that almost look the same.

sure, after reducing variety in one class they should do the same in the other class. btw, closed p1 and p2 cars wont look the same because of the different dimensions (reduced length and width), taller "bubble" in lmp1, and those structures on the side protecting the driver from impact or something like that.
But I think that the current p2 coupes look quite horrible, especially the lola. On the other hand the new lotus car looks good imho.
http://www.endurance-info.com/versio..._Lotus2013.jpg

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by cdsvg

I thought you'd be a fan of sixes? The R18 really sounds great when you can hear the grunty engine note above the turbo whoosh (and other cars), better than the dull as dishwater 3.4 V8s.

Erm, no. The R18 actually pretty much sounds like nothing. The second 908 was the only Diesel to really have something that could be called an engine sound, that wasn't even drowned out by a F458 surrounding it.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Erm, no. The R18 actually pretty much sounds like nothing. The second 908 was the only Diesel to really have something that could be called an engine sound, that wasn't even drowned out by a F458 surrounding it.

the best sounding "nothing" there is...

[Maelochs]

I would assume ACO wrote its diesel/gas regs to allow for things like low-end torque as well as overall energy output, based on many years’ experience of seeing what the diesels can actually do.

Clearly, the fact that most of the new factories don’t plan diesel engines makes a difference, but I assume that the difference is that gas engines will no longer get screwed to let Peugeot and Audi dominate, not that Audi will get screwed. I assume ACO doesn’t want to annoy any factory, not that they are willing to shaft Audi to keep the rest.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by jo1998sh

With LMP1 becoming coupe only, I hope LMP2 becomes open-top only as I don't particularly like the coupe LMP2 cars plus this would give a big advantage when identifying cars: e.g. the oak LMP1s and LMP2s that almost look the same.

Um, I would to have those closed-cockpit LMP2s remain in competition.

Still, I'm thinking that in the future, the line between Formula One cars and Le Mans Prototypes will be blurred... Heck, I would like to see a prototype race car that can do anything in any surface, distance, and discipline.

[NaBUru38]

Coupés are much safer.

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Erm, no. The R18 actually pretty much sounds like nothing. The second 908 was the only Diesel to really have something that could be called an engine sound, that wasn't even drowned out by a F458 surrounding it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtAfU...eature=related

[tpa8580]

I don't come here very often but I love reading some of your posts. Some very informed opinions that make for nice reading.

As for the new rules I must say that to some extend emotions took over and a somewhat nostalgic Group C feeling came to mind when reading them.
I personally like the closed coupes better than open cars. I grew up in the eighties watching they great sports car era with Porsche, Mazda etc.
I think we'll see coupe LMP2 cars only in 2014 it would make no sense to leave them open.
The looks of the 2014 LMP1 cars is something I'm looking forward to but that will take a while so for now I dream.
The engine rules I think will make WEC and Le Mans attract more manufactures. I think the FIA and ACO made the right call doing so. It might even attract some F1 teams as well since the engine rules over there, even in 2014, don't give them as much freedom.
I have no illusions that we will see 1500HP cars probably more along the lines of 600HP cars with powerful KERS. But I do think we'll see some faster times and some more excitement. Anybody think we'll see LMP1 only sportscar racing like we did in the eighties.
Some privateers are concerned but I still think that this will all work out. No privateers is no fun.
I am wondering how they will lower the front wings as to give the drivers a better view. By looking at some high res pictures of both the Toyota and Audi it doesn't seem as though they have a lot of space. Could they go for a smaller diameter front wheel?

[PascaLM]

I would tend to engines giving 450 to 500 HP, seeing the amount of fuel per lap allowed in 2014. The search for the consumption reduction of the thermic engines as reached its maximum. The present performances will be kept with reduction of width (aero) and weight (acceleration), and the hybrid systems (kinetic or electric).
The best point relies in freedom for the choice of engine, though it's not clearly written (V10, V12 allowed ?).
And the race for hybrid technologies and their improvement will be interesting too.

[alexkiller8]

partially agree, for sure also the weight reduction will help a bit to spare fuel beyond the usage of the hybrid system, but in my opinion is more probable a small reduction of actual poweroutput than an increase. As i expressed before in my opinion manufacters will decide to use direct injection turbo engines with a displacement not over 2.4L in v6 or v8 configuration, these units will improve their fuel efficency because simply can't reach an high revlimit like actual NA 3.4 v8 do (but will develope less power as collateral effect), but at least will gain a lot of torque in low/mid-rev that combined with the hybrid boost will give a much better acceleration than the actual cars. Top speed at le mans i think that will remain similiar to the actual one because meanwhile a possible power reduction, aero development will keep on to create cars with ever less drag (also because of width reduction).

[eps]

Not so sure the Coupe only hasn't just been placed under Safety because they just prefer the aesthetics of them and couldn't just say that!!

The Audis were well underweight anyway, does anyone know remember how much they weigh, without the required ballast? I'm sure someone on RLM mentioned it.

[eps]

On page 12, they make a big thing of the 2012 vision splays, but this doesn't seem to correspond with the windows on the car, whereas on the next page, with the 2014 car, they seem to match the windows on the car, so it seems like a bit of a nonsense, or have they placed the wrong outline of the car definition on there?

I'm also a bit concerned by the closeness of the feet of the driver to the front axle. I don't quite get the need to bring them forward, as surely a drivers feet are quite close to the front axle anyway.. It just looks like they've brought them forward to aid vision, but surely this can be acheived by the elements of the car changing or moving further back, as opposed to moving the driver forward in the car. Hmm..

[deggis]

Originally Posted by eps

The Audis were well underweight anyway, does anyone know remember how much they weigh, without the required ballast? I'm sure someone on RLM mentioned it.

R18 (2011) 850 kg, R18 Ultra 750 kg

@ http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=3496

[henk4]

Originally Posted by eps

I'm also a bit concerned by the closeness of the feet of the driver to the front axle. I don't quite get the need to bring them forward, as surely a drivers feet are quite close to the front axle anyway.. It just looks like they've brought them forward to aid vision, but surely this can be acheived by the elements of the car changing or moving further back, as opposed to moving the driver forward in the car. Hmm..

as long as the driver's feet are within the confinements of the carbon tub, they are more or less save.