[LM24 Race] 2016 24 Hours of Le Mans

[Sodemo]

Would someone care to enlighten me regarding the Peugeot issue which the ACO let them off on? My knowledge of this is a bit vague...?

[flyingshoppingcart]

Thanks to deggis in the other thread for posting a replay of the end of the race. It seems like the team directed Nakajima to stop at the finish and reboot there instead of going into the pits. So then it may not be Nakajima's fault, but why he lost engine power in the first place remains a question.

[porman]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

2 hours? It only seems like a few minutes a go.

I'm with you on that. I am utterly heartbroken for Toyota. While I root for Porsche, no one should wish for an end like this. It took me about ten minutes to process. This was surreal, but not in a good way.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Would someone care to enlighten me regarding the Peugeot issue which the ACO let them off on? My knowledge of this is a bit vague...?

Peugeot parked at the finish line in 2007 to do a very slow final lap. The ACO allowed this under the force majure clause, because they said if the car had continued then it would've blown the engine. The issue today is that the car had the exact same issue - it was over the laptime due to a technical issue, so history says it should've been allowed.

But it seems that despite ORECA running the Toyota team, it's still not French enough to be given the ACOs help like Peugeot got.

[outnumbered]

The thing I found most odd from watching the TC coverage was that Hugues de Chaunac and the rest of the team bigwigs didn't seem to realise that anything was wrong until the car had pretty much come to a halt at the finish line.

So I think they must have been expecting Nakajima to slow down for the photo opportunity with the other car, or they'd have been looking worried as soon as he slowed down way back out at Indianapolis.

[flyingshoppingcart]

With regards to ACO, I agree it's BS that the 5 was not classified on the podium. They should have allowed it under force majure.

[flyingshoppingcart]

Originally Posted by outnumbered

The thing I found most odd from watching the TC coverage was that Hugues de Chaunac and the rest of the team bigwigs didn't seem to realise that anything was wrong until the car had pretty much come to a halt at the finish line.

So I think they must have been expecting Nakajima to slow down for the photo opportunity with the other car, or they'd have been looking worried as soon as he slowed down way back out at Indianapolis.

Hmmm, looking at the replay, I see what you mean. Too many questions, not enough answers.

[Akrapovic]

I doubt the team didn't know. Nakajima was on the radio in Mulsanne saying he'd lost power.

[rdjones]

I have just seen a tweet from Marshall Pruett saying he overheard one of the Toyota drivers saying that it was a Turbo failure.

[Japanese Samurai]

Motorsport.jp says that #5's trouble was control system trouble.
Nakajima was telling to the pit lack of the power from 3 laps ago.
And J-sports TV reports that #5 had a hybrid system trouble in the first stints.
http://jp.motorsport.com/lemans/news...%81%99-789899/

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by outnumbered

The thing I found most odd from watching the TC coverage was that Hugues de Chaunac and the rest of the team bigwigs didn't seem to realise that anything was wrong until the car had pretty much come to a halt at the finish line.

So I think they must have been expecting Nakajima to slow down for the photo opportunity with the other car, or they'd have been looking worried as soon as he slowed down way back out at Indianapolis.

It was confusing. ,They must have known they were in trouble when the #6 passed the #5 but they didn’t seem to respond until the car finally stopped.

Possibly Nakajima was told to get to the line before doing Ctr-Alt-Del, so he could stagger across the line on battery if it didn’t work, which would have been okay if Porsche had caught upwith less lap-time left---Porsche could have come around and won, and Toyota could have crossed and finished second. But Porsche crossed the line with too much time left, so the #5’s last lap would have been over six minutes anyway.

I have no idea … I am just guessing.

[flyingshoppingcart]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I doubt the team didn't know. Nakajima was on the radio in Mulsanne saying he'd lost power.

So before the car stopped on track, were they somehow still confident?

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Motorsport.jp says that #5's trouble was control system trouble.
Nakajima was telling to the pit lack of the power from 3 laps ago.
And J-sports TV reports that #5 had a hybrid system trouble in the first stints.
http://jp.motorsport.com/lemans/news...%81%99-789899/

First stints, as in the beginning of the race? Wow so if true that changes everything. That means the 5 was driving with reliability problems the entire race, and that it was only a matter of time before serious trouble.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Peugeot parked at the finish line in 2007 to do a very slow final lap. The ACO allowed this under the force majure clause, because they said if the car had continued then it would've blown the engine. The issue today is that the car had the exact same issue - it was over the laptime due to a technical issue, so history says it should've been allowed

Are you saying the Peugeot was allowed to complete its last lap over the time limit?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bobec

Are you saying the Peugeot was allowed to complete its last lap over the time limit?

Accordingly to RLM, yes. The limit for the last lap is 6 minutes and Peugeot was over that. The force majure clause was enacted by the ACO to allow the car to be classified.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Peugeot parked at the finish line in 2007 to do a very slow final lap. The ACO allowed this under the force majure clause, because they said if the car had continued then it would've blown the engine. The issue today is that the car had the exact same issue - it was over the laptime due to a technical issue, so history says it should've been allowed.

But it seems that despite ORECA running the Toyota team, it's still not French enough to be given the ACOs help like Peugeot got.

You do have to remember that in '07, the ACO waived the 6 minute rule for everyone because of the track being inundated with standing water on a biblical level.

However, I do understand the point you're trying to make, and the last lap rule is cited as being at the race director's discretion.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flyingshoppingcart

So before the car stopped on track, were they somehow still confident?

I don't know. But I do know that there was a radio message on Mulsanne whilst the car was on screen. The telemetry at the time showed the car doing 200kmh and that the hybrid green bar was flashing (deployment or recovery).

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by bobec

Are you saying the Peugeot was allowed to complete its last lap over the time limit?

As I understand it, Yes, Peugeot sat on the line for several minutes so that it could cross in time to take the win as soon as the clocked ticked over. (Honestly my memory doesn’t stretch back that far … I can barely recall Monday.)

The Importance of Being French ....

[chernaudi]

And right now, having had some time to digest this race, I'm just hoping that Rennen won't get in contact with the mafia to deal with me after cheering Ant along to give him a much deserved father's day present that now won't happen.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And right now, having had some time to digest this race, I'm just hoping that Rennen won't get in contact with the mafia to deal with me after cheering Ant along to give him a much deserved father's day present that now won't happen.

Say, Mr. Davis, if you want the name of the guy who jinxed your son .....

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't know. But I do know that there was a radio message on Mulsanne whilst the car was on screen. The telemetry at the time showed the car doing 200kmh and that the hybrid green bar was flashing (deployment or recovery).

I didn't see that graphic on TV, but I did notice that the car was way slower than it should be down the run to Mulsanne Corner, and judging by that situation and the last lap it ran, it had to be a gearbox or engine failure, or a major electronics shut down that killed the electrical system for the engine or the ignition system. That Toyota seemed to be solely on EV power, like what happened at Spa.

Similar happened in '14 with the Porsches when they had engine problems, and when the #7 Audi had it's gear shift issues when it lost drive when the gear shift got locked between gears.

[flyingshoppingcart]

I give Toyota full credit at least for making a fast car. Fast but fragile is still better than slow and reliable. Was too fragile to win sadly.

[Maelochs]

I wouldn't call fastest after 23 hours and 56 minutes "fragile."

23:56 problem-free and dying on the last lap is "unlucky, or maybe "cursed" .... but not "fragile."

[flyingshoppingcart]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I wouldn't call fastest after 23 hours and 56 minutes "fragile."

23:56 problem-free and dying on the last lap is "unlucky, or maybe "cursed" .... but not "fragile."

Read what Japanese Samurai wrote. According to some Japanese TV source, the 5 car had hybrid problems from the first stints, which would be from the beginning of the race.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by flyingshoppingcart

Read what Japanese Samurai wrote. According to some Japanese TV source, the 5 car had hybrid problems from the first stints, which would be from the beginning of the race.

In which case, if true, they did a bloody brilliant job all race - because they controlled the race for much of it. Without those problems they might have won by a considerable margin.....

[chernaudi]

DSC on Midweek Motorsports' FB page report that the #5 was killed by a turbo failure, possibly very similar to the turbo problems at Spa that hit the same car.