Formula Renault BARC - Page 9

amier · 25 May 2007, 13:39 (Ref:1921036)

Well thats interesting, 6-8k even for a FR200 car. what about engine rebuilds? do they have to be done by authorised builders?

What do FR2000 cars go for second hand?

Bob Pearson · 25 May 2007, 14:52 (Ref:1921079)

Quote:

Originally Posted by amier

Well thats interesting, 6-8k even for a FR200 car. what about engine rebuilds? do they have to be done by authorised builders?

What do FR2000 cars go for second hand?

You won't run an Fr2000 car for that sort of money. I was referring to an 8 valve club class car. The additional costs of an Fr2000 are all caused by the rules which exclude the owners from rebuilding engines/gearboxes/diffs. The end result of those rules is that a blown head gasket requires an engine removal, it is then sent to France for a rebuild and comes back with a bill of several grand. If it was an 8 valve engine, the bill is £28 for the head gasket and a few hours work in the garage.
If you brought an Fr2000 ( unfortunately about £19k ) you could run it cheaply in a single seater formula ( if they let you in). It is the UK FR rules which cause the crippling expense.

amier · 25 May 2007, 15:08 (Ref:1921091)

Bloody hell!! I thought you were on about FR2000.... I can see why it so damn expensive.

Why not create a championship for the FR2000 cars based on the rules for the older 8v cars? What is the reson they insist it has to be done by the specified company?

amier · 25 May 2007, 15:15 (Ref:1921096)

Sorry for the dumb question, but does the club class run along side the main UK FR2000 series?

Bob Pearson · 25 May 2007, 15:25 (Ref:1921103)

The club class runs alongside the carbon cars ( with restrictors fitted ) in the BARC formula.
The restrictors bring the performance of the two cars much closer than it would otherwise have been.
The reason why engine rebuilds parts etc have to come through a single source? Well, the official reason is the old level playing field business. You can have your own opinions, while I have mine. In the final analysis it is the reason why we drive club class cars instead of championship class.

craig dawson · 25 May 2007, 15:50 (Ref:1921114)

Im still looking for a car if anyone has heard of anything, money is sitting and waiting. Mike at Reon has been really helpful so thanks for the contact there!

dasc04 · 25 May 2007, 16:05 (Ref:1921123)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redracer77

like any forms of motorsport.... as much as you want it to be. Will depend on testing, tyres, self run or team run.

I would have thought you could self run a car for between £6k and £8k. Maybe less if you are like Bob and do a lot of the engine stuff your self.

We self run and we probably spend between £10k to £15k in the FR2000 class. Thats with testing the day before the meeting only. Not the biggest budget by a long way but I would think you would struggle to do it for much less. That also doesn't include damage.

You can't do your engines yourself as they are sealed and are done via RSport as Bob says. Personally I think this is not a bad thing given the current competitiveness within the champioship. If engines were not strictly governed and people could save money by doing things themselves someone is always going to spend the money on making that "unsealed, unchecked and unknown" engine that little bit quicker and that little bit illegal.

dasc04 · 25 May 2007, 16:07 (Ref:1921124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by amier

What is the reson they insist it has to be done by the specified company?

Because people cheat.

amier · 25 May 2007, 20:22 (Ref:1921245)

Thanks Bob and other for all yoru help, much appreciated...

Well I ll just have to go the Tatuus 97-99 route

Besides, Im sure I can have fun learning with that. Just a sequential box would have made it a bit easier...

Anyone want to buy my 400bhp tuned Nissan Skyline GTR?

Redracer77 · 26 May 2007, 08:01 (Ref:1921386)

Quote:

Originally Posted by amier

Thanks Bob and other for all yoru help, much appreciated...

Well I ll just have to go the Tatuus 97-99 route

Besides, Im sure I can have fun learning with that. Just a sequential box would have made it a bit easier...

Anyone want to buy my 400bhp tuned Nissan Skyline GTR?

If you are learning the you should go the club class route. If you start bending a FR2000 then bills will be high!!!

Dont worry about seq box's as the LD200 in the Club class cars are good fun and easy to use also

Triple J Motorsport · 28 May 2007, 09:51 (Ref:1922623)

Now have a RC98 sitting in my workshop....

Looking for some spare rims now

Bob Pearson · 30 May 2007, 06:40 (Ref:1924371)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasc04

Because people cheat.

It's sad that so many drivers assume that others cheat. I am convinced that if it does happen at all it is extremely rare. You only have to take our circumstances of a couple of seasons ago when many fingers were pointed at us. The engine was stripped, all components weighed and measured and it was declared legal. The MSA system of protests is a perfectly good system, it should always be used if a driver is suspected of cheating. Constant moaning about cheating without action to back it up invites the situation we have now of being forced to pay for overpriced engine/gearbox/diff rebuilds that in a lot of cases could be carried out by the owners for a fraction of the cost.

DSM · 30 May 2007, 07:24 (Ref:1924390)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

It's sad that so many drivers assume that others cheat. I am convinced that if it does happen at all it is extremely rare. You only have to take our circumstances of a couple of seasons ago when many fingers were pointed at us. The engine was stripped, all components weighed and measured and it was declared legal. The MSA system of protests is a perfectly good system, it should always be used if a driver is suspected of cheating. Constant moaning about cheating without action to back it up invites the situation we have now of being forced to pay for overpriced engine/gearbox/diff rebuilds that in a lot of cases could be carried out by the owners for a fraction of the cost.

A reasonable statement Bob, but the fact is that people do cheat. You only have to read the MSA proceedings regularly to see that.

Whether it's engines, gearboxes, ignitions, fuel, tyre softeners, from karts to F1, it happens and would be more likely to do so if the rules were relaxed.

Currently I think BARC is OK. If that were to change, which is, in our opinion, unlikely with the current policing, we would simply stop competing. If that view is not uncommon then the regulations are unfortunately necessary, in the main, to keep the series healthy.

Bob Pearson · 30 May 2007, 12:57 (Ref:1924622)

I certainly would have no sympathy for cheats. But, when I think back over the various formulas I have competed in, protests that have been made and scrutineering checks carried out I can't think of anything that was found that constituted cheating. I can think of odd occasions when someone was pulled up for something which would not have benefited them one iota but in truth put the car outside the rules, but cheating in the real sense of the word ? not really.
I, like you believe the rules will not change for BARC Renault, however I am surprised at your suggestion that you wouldn't compete under normal MSA rules.
Do you think cheating was wholesale when you competed in the club class? If not, why do you think cheats would be attracted to the Championship class if the rules were changed? Or is that not what you are suggesting?
I won't bother to go into my arguements against the Championship rules, I suspect I have inflicted them on you far too many times already !!

DSM · 30 May 2007, 13:13 (Ref:1924630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

I certainly would have no sympathy for cheats. But, when I think back over the various formulas I have competed in, protests that have been made and scrutineering checks carried out I can't think of anything that was found that constituted cheating. I can think of odd occasions when someone was pulled up for something which would not have benefited them one iota but in truth put the car outside the rules, but cheating in the real sense of the word ? not really.
I, like you believe the rules will not change for BARC Renault, however I am surprised at your suggestion that you wouldn't compete under normal MSA rules.
Do you think cheating was wholesale when you competed in the club class? If not, why do you think cheats would be attracted to the Championship class if the rules were changed? Or is that not what you are suggesting?
I won't bother to go into my arguements against the Championship rules, I suspect I have inflicted them on you far too many times already !!

I think you misunderstand me. what I mean is that I believe BARC to be OK in that there is no cheating. I meant that if I did not believe it to be so we would stop, not that I think current rules are OK and if they changed we would stop. Re-reading my post I see how you read it.

What I would say though is that, if the FR2000 was not closely controlled it would be more subsceptible to cheating than Club. The motivation would be greater with the teams' goals and the aspirations of the younger drivers taken into consideration.

I do agree that the cost pressure imposed on the FR2000 class is onerous but believe that to be down to profiteering on a captive market rather than an impositon necessary because of the rules. The rules could stay in place without the contrived supply situation and Renault could stop the overpricing of things if they cared.

Bob Pearson · 30 May 2007, 13:52 (Ref:1924655)

Yes, I think we are in agreement there!!

DSM · 30 May 2007, 15:04 (Ref:1924700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

Yes, I think we are in agreement there!!

Good! See you at Oulton!

Bob Pearson · 30 May 2007, 15:14 (Ref:1924707)

See you there, I'll start checking the weather forecast soon and make a few duff predictions.

Triple J Motorsport · 6 Jun 2007, 13:36 (Ref:1930279)

Does anyone have any for sale?

Any off Set single rims, pairs or complete sets?

Also any Tatuus RC98 Spares?

Also in case I find no rims second hand contact details of Madlin to purchase new ones, can find them anywhere on the web.

Cheers,

John

SPBRacing · 6 Jun 2007, 18:17 (Ref:1930489)

rayff

have you tried here / they may still be for sale as only 2 weeks
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/search...archtext=madin

halfmast · 6 Jun 2007, 18:50 (Ref:1930538)

Ray FF

Have rims and spares.

07970 045649

Triple J Motorsport · 7 Jun 2007, 10:44 (Ref:1931098)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPBRacing

rayff

have you tried here / they may still be for sale as only 2 weeks
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/search...archtext=madin

Yep sold but thanks anyway

ADEE · 7 Jun 2007, 18:29 (Ref:1931439)

I know Oulton comes first but who has an entry in for Silverstone?

Bob Pearson · 8 Jun 2007, 07:24 (Ref:1931963)

In the club class, all the usuals, the only ones missing are the third cars from Muzz and Reon. 35 entries in total including 1 reserve which is a twin cam, 12 club entries.

ADEE · 8 Jun 2007, 08:19 (Ref:1931998)

Thanks Bob. Reason for question was a refund cheque from BARC re. Silverstone was waiting for me when I returned home yesterday. Mystery solved this a.m. - they hadn't refused my entry, just double charged me. That'll teach me to check my bank statements!