The 'Great' WEC Grid Girl Debate

[Maelochs]

On the other hand, this could be a cost-cutting measure demanded by the Finance department, which the PR department decided to parlay into an attempt to pretend WEC was really interested in making racing women-friendly, and had succeeded by firing a bunch of female employees.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

On the other hand, this could be a cost-cutting measure demanded by the Finance department, which the PR department decided to parlay into an attempt to pretend WEC was really interested in making racing women-friendly, and had succeeded by firing a bunch of female employees.

Cost cutting. Right. You know what kind of money teams have to put down just to apply for the 24 hours of Le Mans? And what the total number is they have pay to finally be on the grid? On top of that, if you calculate the vast revenues the ACO gets from this quarter of a million race fans? General entrance fees, campsite tickets, grandstand tickets, vendor fees and the lot?
Looking at the spending the ACO has done in the last couple of years, redesigning huge parts of the track, laying down a vast new village area?
Compared to that, the few euro's these girls get is simply laughable.

In the twenty years I've visited this fantastic event, I brought with me quite some different women and I've never heard one of them mentioning anything about the grid girls, apart from just envious talks about wanting to be there in between the cars and teams.

[Maelochs]

When you have a chance to calm down some ... google the meaning of the winkie smiley at the end a of a post on an Internet board ... if you like.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

How many times have you posted this same message to the forums?

Less often than you rant for the sake of ranting.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not necessary. I don't seek to either enlighten or change anyone's views. Not in this thread, anyway.....

That's not what came across.
You were quick to brand my argument as fallacious, but then provided no evidence of your claim.
You accused me of viewing things through a rose colored hue, but failed to provide specifics.
You seem to argue that inalienable (or natural) rights are mythical (a very scary thought) but fail to explain why.

Perhaps it will interest you to know that the 1948 United Nations Declaration of Human Rights enshrined one conception of natural rights into international soft law. As a "Progressive" surely you take the UN seriously?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by GTfour

It is ofcourse fine for your wife to voice her opinion but I think we can rest in the thought that she is a minority in her stance in this matter. Since motorsports are, for the biggest part, enjoyed by the male gender, it's safe to say that most will miss the grid girls.

Talking about my personal opinion, will I really miss them? No, ofcourse not. Did I look at them when I could see them? Ofcourse I did. I'm a guy and I love to see pretty girls. Doh. But me not missing them(or many of the 'I don't mind as long as the race is there' folk) is not the point.

The point is the reason why these ladies are being banned of the grid. This reason is downright hypocritical. The people who've actually managed to get this tradition banned, are boasting about the fact that 'these girls are no longer of this time' do not realise that by banning this, they're actually stepping back in time many decades instead of advancing in human evolution.
When we look at the history of these grid girls at Le Mans, we see that they haven't actually been around for that long. We can also see then, that the opener and less sexist our societies became, the scarcer they were dressed! Think of the Hawaiian Tropic girls of the early seventies, with their knitted, very flimsy bikini's, a time in which hard fought sexual freedom was very much celebrated. This showed in the way women were able to show themselfs for what they are: beautifull creatures who should be able to show of their gorgious bodies and faces for everyone to see. I personally take offense by anybody who takes offence by that!

This politically correct move(for that's what is) by a governing body who has the power to do so, is therefore a big step back to the dark ages, in which the real sexists(I'm not gonna name them again, but we all know who I'm talking about) were all catered for and pretty girls were looked at as objects to use as they seemed fit.
Can we do anything about it? Sadly no. Ayse is right in pointing that out. This should however NEVER be the reason for us not to voice our concerns and disgust about this kind of abuse of power by a governing body that should just worry by organising the race, instead of trying to press us into any kind of socialy censored behaviour.

Thank you GT4! I was beginning to think that I was on the wrong planet.

[migliacars]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Hopefully the next steps would be to require a dress code for all women attending races (especially the more attractive ones), banning shorts, short skirts, plunging neck-lines, etc. That should keep the wolf whistling Neanderthals in their place.

It seem this is the beginning of the end of the world, Its stupid ideas like this that will start the end for civilisation. what next, were will this end.


far to may do gooders in motorsport and everywhere else for that matter.

if you dont like women close your eyes.

[Holt]

What are grid girls paid anyway?

When touring the Dallas Cowboys stadium and eventually the locker room of the cheerleaders I was shocked to learn the cheerleaders made literally pennies, something like $200 a game. These are the Dallas cowboys cheerleaders too, the most famous cheerleaders on the planet.

Anyways the point isnt their pay but what their pay says about their profession. They arent career cheerleaders in the same way I doubt there are many career grid girls. The stadium tour guide made it clear several times many of the girls had degrees, were in college, or had full time jobs. Cheerleading was just a fun thing on the side, or perhaps a way into modeling.

See these people have painted themselves into a corner. Its a really silly game that attempts to paint both sexes with a broad brush, with an end game goal to turn human beings into interchangeable unisex monsters.

Moderation is the key. Instead its turned into some sort of circus contest about who can be the most socially sensitive, with one half hearted 'gesture of equality' after another, when real, serious issues are overlooked and forgotten. I guess thats the consequences of a society thats been so selfish for so long. When it comes to really helping people, they have no idea how to do it or do it right, so they just jump on the bandwagon.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Holt

What are grid girls paid anyway?

When touring the Dallas Cowboys stadium and eventually the locker room of the cheerleaders I was shocked to learn the cheerleaders made literally pennies, something like $200 a game. These are the Dallas cowboys cheerleaders too, the most famous cheerleaders on the planet.

Anyways the point isnt their pay but what their pay says about their profession. They arent career cheerleaders in the same way I doubt there are many career grid girls. The stadium tour guide made it clear several times many of the girls had degrees, were in college, or had full time jobs. Cheerleading was just a fun thing on the side, or perhaps a way into modeling.

See these people have painted themselves into a corner. Its a really silly game that attempts to paint both sexes with a broad brush, with an end game goal to turn human beings into interchangeable unisex monsters.

Moderation is the key. Instead its turned into some sort of circus contest about who can be the most socially sensitive, with one half hearted 'gesture of equality' after another, when real, serious issues are overlooked and forgotten. I guess thats the consequences of a society thats been so selfish for so long. When it comes to really helping people, they have no idea how to do it or do it right, so they just jump on the bandwagon.

Now there you go. Another clear insight into daily realism. Why is this so hard to see for many people these days?

So it basically boiles down to the fact that not only should we rally to keep our grid girls, we should be demonstrating for them to get a lot better pay!

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Thank you GT4! I was beginning to think that I was on the wrong planet.

We're not alone. It's just that many have been dumbed down by the barage of political correctness. The worst disease of our time.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by GTfour

We're not alone. It's just that many have been dumbed down by the barage of political correctness. The worst disease of our time.

A sense of perspective is needed. Nobody has banned anything. The WEC has simply chosen to stop employing its own grid girls - nothing to stop teams using their own.

This is what I don't understand with the vitriol here. All this talk of "imposing values" and whatever. I had no idea so many expected the organising body to provide grid girls.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

A sense of perspective is needed. Nobody has banned anything. The WEC has simply chosen to stop employing its own grid girls - nothing to stop teams using their own.

On the starting grid? The original Reuters story mentions changing the starting procedure by lining up the cars in old Le Mans style, so it does sound the number labels could be arranged in some other form.

Otherwise I agree with you. I really don't get what has this to do with freedoms and 1st amendmends because last time I checked, WEC was a not a state.

[Juntos]

I am surprised that nobody mentioned yet the silly and juvenile comment of Anthony Davidson. It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life, man! Did he forget for a moment that the company who pay his salary (Toyota) is also the company who most support grid girls in racing at Japan? Spit the food out on your plate and say that it's awesome!

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

A sense of perspective is needed. Nobody has banned anything. The WEC has simply chosen to stop employing its own grid girls - nothing to stop teams using their own.

This is what I don't understand with the vitriol here. All this talk of "imposing values" and whatever. I had no idea so many expected the organising body to provide grid girls.

You keep labeling all who dare to disagree with this dicision as vitriol spewers, while we nearly voice our concern about the reason why the ACO/WEC has taken this backward step. The grid girls are a fine tradition, showing our free ways instead of constrictive and sexist ways of reasoning about beautifull women showing of. In no way has the WEC stopped using humans to hold the national flags and starting numbers, did they? To leave this job to the independent teams would make for a chaotic scene on the grid. They've clearly stated that they are particularly stopping to use grid grils for this and that's the whole point. Again, the organising body should do just that: organise. Not deciding for us what's right or wrong about our western view of women. Clearly we view ladies with respect. We don't need for a bunch of politically correct suits to teach us their hypocritical ways.

[Nick6]

I can't speak for the UK, but in some regions of the world the idea of "sex sells" in advertising and promotions is big. Especially in some Asian and South American countries. Trying to make a political statement out of this is probably going to affect ticket sales and promotions at those races or at the very least leave a sour taste in the mouth of some of the fans. I don't even see it going well in Austin, even if Austin is a socialist outpost in the middle of Texas.

I never saw grid girls any different than cheerleaders at American football games.

[MoMedic9019]

The issue is, everyone wants to be offended when it comes to this, or anything else that's a bit uneasy...

Frankly, if it doesn't DIRECTLY effect you in negative fashion, it doesn't matter. If you don't like it, pay no attention to it. You'll find life is a whole lot less stressful. Some would say it's apathetic, but, I have bigger worries than someone doing a job they willingly signed up for, KNOWING they might have to show some skin.

[Paradise City]

I don't mind getting rid of them myself. Ladies all logoed up just doesn't appeal to me. It just seems synthetic somehow.

But the whole mushrooming chorus of "it's 2015, guys!", "it was sexist, luv u 4 this wec xoxoxox"..etc - that's all garbage.

[owrforever]

Agree with Nick6 and MoMedic; sounds like a few folks need to loosen their nickers. If you don't like it, don't watch.

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I don't mind getting rid of them myself. Ladies all logoed up just doesn't appeal to me. It just seems synthetic somehow.

But the whole mushrooming chorus of "it's 2015, guys!", "it was sexist, luv u 4 this wec xoxoxox"..etc - that's all garbage.

WEC not hiring gird girls isn't an issue IMO. Honestly I always thought it was the promoters hiring them. Trying to make it into a leftist "progressive" political statement is.


Just to add something else, from what I notice most grid girls are dressed in a attractive but also themed manner. It was never like walking into a cheap strip club.

[GT6]

i can't believe the way this section of the forum has gone, the WEC has decided to stop paying money to girls holding up signs while wearing scimpy cloths, people have different views on this but that is what they are views, i personally could not see the point in them but they are now gone so get over it, nothing you can do or say will change that. Lets talk about cars and racing that is after all what this forum is actually about

[codename_47]

I've never seen what they add to the sport.

They're not the main attraction, they're only in front of the cars for about 15 mins and then what? Oh yeah the race actually starts and no one is thinking about the grid girls.

Easier to get rid of 15 mins of grid girls being employed as human decoration and make a huge wave in p.r. when in the end it's not going to stop anyone going.
Indeed if anyone stops going to a motor race because they stop using grid girlsI think they have bigger issues

Even the loudest squeaky wheels of old fashioned "buhhh it's political correctness gone mad buhhh" shouting won't stop going to an motor race they're an actual fan of over this.

if you want to see women in revealing clothing head to a strip club.
If you want to see sports car racing in a family friendly environment head to silverstone.
There shouldn't really be any crossover in 2015

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by codename_47

There shouldn't really be any crossover in 2015

Who is employing strippers???

Listen. ALL of these girls are willing participants in it. This isn't North Korea. They aren't being paraded about as part of a punishment while living in a highly rated gulag.

They are mostly all professional models, who are earning a wage from a company who is paying them. They choose to wear what these companies provide them...many are not bothered by it in the least bit....if you were, you likely wouldn't be a model for a living.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

That's not what came across.
You were quick to brand my argument as fallacious, but then provided no evidence of your claim.
You accused me of viewing things through a rose colored hue, but failed to provide specifics.
You seem to argue that inalienable (or natural) rights are mythical (a very scary thought) but fail to explain why.

Perhaps it will interest you to know that the 1948 United Nations Declaration of Human Rights enshrined one conception of natural rights into international soft law. As a "Progressive" surely you take the UN seriously?

Gimme a break. If I've offended your sensibilities, I apologise, but if you think I'm going to go into a lengthy discourse as to why I consider your argument fallacious, sorry no, that degree of patience I simply don't have. I hear what you're saying but disagree. I don't propose to write a thesis on it though. Call me shallow if you wish, but I don't consider the UN's view on human rights has much to do with the decision not to employ grid girls.

[garcon]

I'm sure the great and the good at the UN will be overjoyed to learn that the Declaration of Human Rights has been brought into a debate about grid girls. I have no doubt this very subject was foremost in their minds when they signed it.

[Maelochs]

Here is a slightly different perspective.

The grid girls do not perform any service essential to the functioning of the WEC as far as putting on races. I am sure the drivers can identify their cars and their competitors, and the cars themselves bear distinctive liveries and are numbered, so fans should be able to identify them.

On another hand, some—however many, we don't know but at least some—people find the grid girls offensive.

It is simply good sense for the WEC to remove a part of its presentation which might cause offense to a part of the potential fan base and which is totally non-essential to the core product.

Whatever spin others put on it, it is simply good business sense to change the presentation so that it is attractive to as many people as possible. The racing is entirely unchanged, and it is after all, the racing that matters.