2014 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 7-9 February (Merged)

[TCR]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

Thing is the promoter is paid a flat fee for the supports, they got the same for 20 radicals as 55 HQ's, but less clean up 20 cars putting on a good show is more important.

Interesting. If that's the case I guess it negates the argument that a full field off 55 HQs is better than a smaller amount in another support category.

Any idea what the cost was to buy a support category slot?

[TCR]

Originally Posted by nafe!

If driver seeding rules are to be used they need to be completely adopted from Europe, some of the so called unseeded drivers out there were a bit dubious.

Agreed. The GT3 cars are "supposedly" all built to one set of FIA regs why not use the same FIA seeding criteria as used elsewhere.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

20 cars putting on a good show is more important

Certainly... but did the 20 Radicals put on a better show than the 55 HQ's? Not in my opinion.

Take the Saturday afternoon races, the 'slow' and 'used by' HQ's put on a race with battles all down the field and a battle for the lead between the Gemini & the HQ that lasted all race long and down to the wire.

We then had a Radical race where the leader was putting seconds on the field each lap and a race that featured bugger all close racing.

As a spectator, give me the 'slow' cars with close racing throughout the full field anyday over what was effectively Radicals lap dashing on their own.

Originally Posted by TCR

Agreed. The GT3 cars are "supposedly" all built to one set of FIA regs why not use the same FIA seeding criteria as used elsewhere.

What regs are GT3 cars built to?

[Reload]

[QUOTE=TCR;3369956]Interesting. If that's the case I guess it negates the argument that a full field off 55 HQs is better than a smaller amount in another support category.

Any idea what the cost was to buy a support category slot?[/]

Don't think the radical lads mind shelling out some extra $$$ to race at Bathurst.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by TCR

Interesting. If that's the case I guess it negates the argument that a full field off 55 HQs is better than a smaller amount in another support category.

Any idea what the cost was to buy a support category slot?

I guess the only difference is to the support category competitior - it is more viable for Hq's and IP's when the category entry is divided 55 ways as opposed to 15. Say for example for F3.

As for driver seeding - the need for FIA Gold, Silver and Bronze rankings can not be adopted soon enough.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by one five five

Certainly... but did the 20 Radicals put on a better show than the 55 HQ's? Not in my opinion.

Take the Saturday afternoon races, the 'slow' and 'used by' HQ's put on a race with battles all down the field and a battle for the lead between the Gemini & the HQ that lasted all race long and down to the wire.

We then had a Radical race where the leader was putting seconds on the field each lap and a race that featured bugger all close racing.

As a spectator, give me the 'slow' cars with close racing throughout the full field anyday over what was effectively Radicals lap dashing on their own.



What regs are GT3 cars built to?

The competitiveness of the IP races was also helped by Mr Hislop's withdrawal.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Reload

The competitiveness of the IP races was also helped by Mr Hislop's withdrawal.

Most definatly, but the appeal of IP is similiar to the 12hr with the variety of shapes and noises throughout the field, whether Ray Hislop is running or not. Whereas the HQ's and Radicals are one-make affairs (leaving the couple of Gemini's aside)

[TCR]

Originally Posted by one five five

Certainly... but did the 20 Radicals put on a better show than the 55 HQ's? Not in my opinion.

Take the Saturday afternoon races, the 'slow' and 'used by' HQ's put on a race with battles all down the field and a battle for the lead between the Gemini & the HQ that lasted all race long and down to the wire.

We then had a Radical race where the leader was putting seconds on the field each lap and a race that featured bugger all close racing.

As a spectator, give me the 'slow' cars with close racing throughout the full field anyday over what was effectively Radicals lap dashing on their own.

Granted the HQs did provide closer racing than the Radicals this year, but to me they just aren't an interesting race car to watch or listen to.

Originally Posted by one five five

What regs are GT3 cars built to?

Sorry, badly worded. The GT3 car's are all homologated with the FIA and then built to these homologation specs including the BOP requirements.

[porsche91722]

Paul Truswell's thoughts on the FCY's
http://trussers.blogspot.co.uk/2014/...-lead-lap.html

[Hingo]

Originally Posted by TCR

Granted the HQs did provide closer racing than the Radicals this year, but to me they just aren't an interesting race car to watch or listen to.

This. The close racing isn't an issue, it's the desirability of the cars and category.

[Notso Swift]

Originally Posted by one five five

Certainly... but did the 20 Radicals put on a better show than the 55 HQ's? Not in my opinion.

Take the Saturday afternoon races, the 'slow' and 'used by' HQ's put on a race with battles all down the field and a battle for the lead between the Gemini & the HQ that lasted all race long and down to the wire.

We then had a Radical race where the leader was putting seconds on the field each lap and a race that featured bugger all close racing.

As a spectator, give me the 'slow' cars with close racing throughout the full field anyday over what was effectively Radicals lap dashing on their own.

I didn't mean to suggest the Radicals were a better show, in fact I think I expressed support for the HQ's just not in that format, just 20 cars can be more exciting than 50. Sports Sedans with national runners for instance, but 2 years ago the SS field wasn't that deep. I reckon the Ricciardello's would do a 2.05

Originally Posted by one five five

What regs are GT3 cars built to?

Is that a serious question?

As far as support categories go it would be nice to see some higher quality categories. There are a tonne of production cars sitting around that could race on the Saturday in their own races if given the chance. Aussie racing cars, Carrera Cup, Porsche GT3, Historics like Group N and A/C all spring to mind as options. However the HQ's and improved production fields are always large fields so I guess it helps prop up the event money wise.

Oh God no, way to kill the event, even regardless of the politics involved.
Historic Group N are the only one's I would consider, but they had trouble paying up front I am told, maybe not with the cost itself but the principle and organisation, because even after you pay you don't really have the confirmation for a few months and it is a ship load of work

As for the cost for a support, it is not my place to say even though I know (although I do not know some of the other compulsory cost such as TV), the main barrier is you need to give a deposit early, May IIRC, and then be fully paid by about October and the organising Association takes the risk.
What most clubs do is take an EOI, work out the cost then set the price, if the entries don't come guess who is holding the baby, only needs to be 8 cars down and that could be $10,000 for a big field or multiples for the smaller classes. THEN you need to organise everything else

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

Is that a serious question?

Yes (and was answered by TCR)

The main point being that there are no regulations for GT3 cars.

[david5]

Originally Posted by Hingo

This. The close racing isn't an issue, it's the desirability of the cars and category.

See, I'm the opposite .

[alfacors]

I dont know anyone who would not attend the 12 Hour based on the supports. It's like saying if the 1000 didn't have decent supports, people wouldn't go. They go for the main race, that is the attraction. I've been to F1 where there was bugger all in the way of supports, and guess what, they still drew a crowd. People whinge about what we have in Melbourne yet it's far superior for on-track activity than just about any other GP in the world.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by alfacors

I dont know anyone who would not attend the 12 Hour based on the supports. It's like saying if the 1000 didn't have decent supports, people wouldn't go. They go for the main race, that is the attraction. I've been to F1 where there was bugger all in the way of supports, and guess what, they still drew a crowd. People whinge about what we have in Melbourne yet it's far superior for on-track activity than just about any other GP in the world.

agreed. Woudl not change if i went or not.

However it would sure help to fill in the day if there are good supports

[EfiOz]

Originally Posted by one five five

Yes (and was answered by TCR)

The main point being that there are no regulations for GT3 cars.

Contrary to popular belief, yes their is a regulation published by the FIA.

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...282014%29x.pdf

You can homologate all sorts of sports cars, you just have to submit it all for approval, which is where the catch lies.

[TCR]

Originally Posted by one five five

The main point being that there are no regulations for GT3 cars.

Pretty sure the FIA sees it differently

Originally Posted by alfacors

I dont know anyone who would not attend the 12 Hour based on the supports.

True, I'd still go if they had ride on lawn mowers as a support category. As it is, the HQ enduro's actually work ok becasue I can go to the toilet, get some food and restock the esky all without missing anything exciting on track

[bluesport]

HQs have outlived most of the people that still have soft spot for them.

[Hingo]

Originally Posted by alfacors

I dont know anyone who would not attend the 12 Hour based on the supports. It's like saying if the 1000 didn't have decent supports, people wouldn't go. They go for the main race, that is the attraction. I've been to F1 where there was bugger all in the way of supports, and guess what, they still drew a crowd. People whinge about what we have in Melbourne yet it's far superior for on-track activity than just about any other GP in the world.

This is true but it certainly effects whether you are there all day Saturday or not. I went to qualifying on the Saturday. I wanted to see the Radicals which were later in the day so decided to hang around after qualifying. When the HQs came on, I watched a bit and I went for a walk across the top of the mountain until the improved production started. When they threw the yellow on the first lap of the improved production, that was the final straw and I decided that I had wasted enough time and I could spend my time better elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, if HQs are the best thing they can get or it is all they can afford to run, then so be it.

[TCR]

Can't post it in the 2014 thread, so this will have to do. Good story and photos.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/02/...urst-12-hours/

[one five five]

Originally Posted by TCR

Pretty sure the FIA sees it differently

As EfiOz posted, the cars get submitted and approved. From there they then get performance balanced.

There is no actual structure to the regs, its effectively "present any sports model you want and we'll try and make it work"

Originally Posted by EfiOz

Contrary to popular belief, yes their is a regulation published by the FIA.

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...282014%29x.pdf

You can homologate all sorts of sports cars, you just have to submit it all for approval, which is where the catch lies.

[TCR]

Originally Posted by one five five

As EfiOz posted, the cars get submitted and approved. From there they then get performance balanced.

There is no actual structure to the regs, its effectively "present any sports model you want and we'll try and make it work"

As I understand it though, once each vehicle is homologated, the FIA then creates a set of regulations for that vehicle, by which all other vehicles of the same model must be built. So rather than one set of regs to cover GT3 vehicles, each model has it's own set of regs.

[GTRMagic]

LADIES, GENTLEMEN AND OTHER POSTING ENTITIES.

THE 2014 THREAD HAS BEEN REOPENED, BUT IS ON A VERY SHORT LEASH.

SHOULD WE SEE A RETURN OF THE ACTIVITY THAT GOT IT CLOSED IN THE FIRST PLACE, THE 2014 THREAD WILL RETURN TO CLOSED, AND HOLIDAYS ARRANGED.

PLEASE COMMENT ON 2014 ISSUES HERE, AND 2015 ISSUES Here

MANY THANKS
The Moderation Team

[chunterer]

May I just ask how the South African 'baby' V8SC's got on compared to established hardware. Can't seem to find anything instantly accessibly about there performances?

[ForumNick]

Finished 15th, 17th & 19th of 28 finishers...

Results Here