[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It's the same people complaining about the unified GT class where, as long as everything is fine THIS YEAR then there is no problem. It's important to look at the bigger picture.

No, it's not the same people! I think the unified GT class is absolutely fantastic. On the other hand, I think this year was the wrong time to start a World Championship. The bigger picture is that over the next few years, there are going to be many changes in each class (teams will have to buy new cars) and at the same time, you're making every team spend more on travel costs. If they continued to build their European fan base up for a couple more years, I think the ACO would have been much better off.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Salamus

The bigger picture is that over the next few years, there are going to be many changes in each class (teams will have to buy new cars) and at the same time, you're making every team spend more on travel costs. If they continued to build their European fan base up for a couple more years, I think the ACO would have been much better off.

Where is this 'new' European fanbase coming from? The ELMS had been racing in Europe for years and was on a downward spiral. So continuing to do that wasn't really an option - especially when the manufacturers showed they quite clearly didn't care about racing at the likes of the Hungaroring or wherever.

You can't tell me a manufacturer like Toyota didn't get more out of winning in Fuji (or Audi in China) than they would winning at Imola.

It's very tough to just build a world championship and have it blow people's minds from day one. If Peugeot hadn't had their crisis I honestly think this year would have been insanely good. Now after they pulled out at the last-possible minute it's easy to go back in hindsight and say it was too early.

But next year you have an already established calendar that should see reduced travel costs. A straight fight between Audi and Toyota at EVERY round - not just in the places they pick. Grid sizes should swell slightly. I don't really know what more you want.

[Dyson Mazda]

You can't tell me a manufacturer like Toyota didn't get more out of winning in Fuji (or Audi in China) than they would winning at Imola.

Both would have gotten a lot more out of winning at Petit last weekend

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Both would have gotten a lot more out of winning at Petit last weekend

Great point. Probably why Audi will run Sebring.
I also believe Toyota is probably get way more miles marketing-wise with their 2 David vs. Goliath victories over Audi in the WEC than Audi will from winning the WEC overall.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Both would have gotten a lot more out of winning at Petit last weekend

Toyota will get more out of Denny Hamlin taking the Chase in Nascar

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Salamus

No, it's not the same people! I think the unified GT class is absolutely fantastic.

Except as we've heard from Ratel, there won't be a unified GT class...

[Purist]

Simmi, you're missing some key factors, and a couple of them you mentioned, but didn't elaborate on in the case of the (E)LMS.

The LMS only had three seasons (2007-09) of full-time works participation in LMP1, and only one season with multiple LMP1 factory efforts (2008). You know as well as I that factories draw fans, and advance the series with their investments. Also, the European series hasn't really had factory GT programs, so it hasn't been able to really fall back on that. Even in WEC, as much trouble as we see for LMP1 going forward, GT isn't exactly looking stellar there either.

It would also help to have venue consistency, and have the races at given venues taking place at the same time each year, year after year. Again, factory investment would help here, and would also make it much less likely that the series would be going to tracks like the Hungaroring.

Just having a series doesn't mean you've really given it a go to make it a success. The LMS didn't do a good enough job of building up that foundation, and the WEC should be doing a better job of building theirs.

Actually, the only specific venue I have an inherent issue with is Bahrain. That's the only one I would automatically want dropped. As for the rest, get the venues, and when the races take place at them, set and keep them there.

For Europe, have races at Monza, Spa, Le Mans, Nurburgring, and Silverstone. Make Monza, Spa, Nurburgring, and Silverstone the LMS; those tracks are long enough that they should be able to accommodate the large field. (And it really does seem silly not to have a round in either of the two countries that have been putting the most cars on the grid.)

For Asia, Fuji and Shanghai are fine. Then figure out which track to add among the main options: Dubai (if you must), Sepang, Buddh, or Yeongam. If the base WEC grid continues to be noticeably reduced from the European rounds, consider running combined with the AsLMS.

In the Americas, we have Austin and Interlagos, so go with that for now.

Have a three-tiered entry fee structure. The lowest rate is for individual races. Have a middle rate for those taking part in the five European rounds. And have the top rate for full-season participants. Of course, make the per-race rate lower for those taking part in more races.

in the longer term, they should look at doing a media rights deal, and a payout system from that, somewhat like F1. Give the factories the impetus to invest in order to get that return for the added media exposure they're helping to pay for.

[trickyd]

Purist, I agree 110%. Thats the way I would have done it. It would surely be too eady and sensible to do it that way. I'm sure you'll get a que of people telling you that racing at Monza and the Nurburgring is a waste of time for manufacturers. But as far as I can see Sportscar series also needs privateers and fans, and both have a lot of options in Europe at the moment if they don't like what you have to offer.

[gregtummer]

I wish the old Hockenheimring was still around.

That would be a great warmup race for Le Mans.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Both would have gotten a lot more out of winning at Petit last weekend

Agreed about Audi.

Not so sure about Toyota though, I would imagine winning in Fuji (especially since it's their first year) probably has more relevance to them than PLM.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by Purist

Simmi, you're missing some key factors, and a couple of them you mentioned, but didn't elaborate on in the case of the (E)LMS.

The LMS only had three seasons (2007-09) of full-time works participation in LMP1, and only one season with multiple LMP1 factory efforts (2008). You know as well as I that factories draw fans, and advance the series with their investments. Also, the European series hasn't really had factory GT programs, so it hasn't been able to really fall back on that. Even in WEC, as much trouble as we see for LMP1 going forward, GT isn't exactly looking stellar there either.

It would also help to have venue consistency, and have the races at given venues taking place at the same time each year, year after year. Again, factory investment would help here, and would also make it much less likely that the series would be going to tracks like the Hungaroring.

Just having a series doesn't mean you've really given it a go to make it a success. The LMS didn't do a good enough job of building up that foundation, and the WEC should be doing a better job of building theirs.

Actually, the only specific venue I have an inherent issue with is Bahrain. That's the only one I would automatically want dropped. As for the rest, get the venues, and when the races take place at them, set and keep them there.

For Europe, have races at Monza, Spa, Le Mans, Nurburgring, and Silverstone. Make Monza, Spa, Nurburgring, and Silverstone the LMS; those tracks are long enough that they should be able to accommodate the large field. (And it really does seem silly not to have a round in either of the two countries that have been putting the most cars on the grid.)

For Asia, Fuji and Shanghai are fine. Then figure out which track to add among the main options: Dubai (if you must), Sepang, Buddh, or Yeongam. If the base WEC grid continues to be noticeably reduced from the European rounds, consider running combined with the AsLMS.

In the Americas, we have Austin and Interlagos, so go with that for now.

Have a three-tiered entry fee structure. The lowest rate is for individual races. Have a middle rate for those taking part in the five European rounds. And have the top rate for full-season participants. Of course, make the per-race rate lower for those taking part in more races.

in the longer term, they should look at doing a media rights deal, and a payout system from that, somewhat like F1. Give the factories the impetus to invest in order to get that return for the added media exposure they're helping to pay for.

Yep, agree... just would add one point, starting the series with Silverstone I think isn't a good idea.

Not to have races in Italy and Germany indeed I'm wondering about too but obviously the manufactures doesn't seem to be bothered very much by that fact. Maybe in Germany they are already happy with the existence of the DTM, GT Masters and so on...

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Great point. Probably why Audi will run Sebring.
I also believe Toyota is probably get way more miles marketing-wise with their 2 David vs. Goliath victories over Audi in the WEC than Audi will from winning the WEC overall.

PLUS ONE!!!!

[deggis]

Monza was dropped after 2008, Nurburgring was dropped after 2009. But lets only b!tch about the WEC.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by deggis

Monza was dropped after 2008, Nurburgring was dropped after 2009. But lets only b!tch about the WEC.

Instead there are rounds in Bahrain and China, but then it wouldn't be really be the World Endurance Championship, if most of the races were held in Europe.

[gregtummer]

What are the requirements to be called "World"?

3 out of the 7 continents?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

What are the requirements to be called "World"?

3 out of the 7 continents?

That or it is only held in the United States.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

That or it is only held in the United States.

Unfortunately true!

[trickyd]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Instead there are rounds in Bahrain and China, but then it wouldn't be really be the World Endurance Championship, if most of the races were held in Europe.

But most of the compeitors are European. Should they make way for Asians and South Americans too? Fair's fair.

[Purist]

Deggis, I'm not sure what your point is with that second sentence. Yes, I was already well aware of when Monza and the Nurburgring departed the LMS calendar. A big part of that was the LMS considering it too expensive to continue running at those F1 circuits without the manufacturer backing they had in previous seasons.

To be historically accurate, at least in baseball, the World Series was named that because of the name of the newspaper that was the original sponsor of the series.

Frankly, I think the minimum for "World Championship" status should be raised to five continents.

[deggis]

It wasn't a direct reply to you, but Monza and Germany (=Nurburging) has been just named so many times recently. As far as I've understood they weren't the most successful rounds?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by trickyd

But most of the compeitors are European. Should they make way for Asians and South Americans too? Fair's fair.

I was being sarcastic, hence the .

[Scooter185]

I subscribed to RCE this month (iPad) and bought the July issue, and reading about the 908 makes me quite sad Peugeot pulled the plug. With as strong as Toyota has been it would have been great to have the third works lmp1 on the grid.

[TF110]

It would be great to see if Puegeot would have been faster than the Audis in the way the Toyota has been. But with it's diesel fuel if the economy would be just as good. They showed that Audi are beatable, for a whole year actually, shame they didn't compete this year.

[R4z3rw33n]

Starworks and Potolicchio separating:
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...rks-part-ways/

- Potolicchio forming independent team for 2013.
- Plans for 2x WEC P2 (ARX03b) entries, 2x GA DP entries.
- Champion racing facility purchased for team's base of operations.

As an aside:
- Starworks planning to continue WEC (P2) effort, independently.
- Dalziel's elected to side with Starworks.


That's some pretty significant news.

[gwyllion]

A pity that Potolicchio and Baron seperate, but this means 3 competitive HPD LMP2 cars in WEC 2013.