[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Simmi

As long as F1 continue to push their way out into new territories it sets the precedent for everyone else. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for the WEC.

That said, with Bernie Ecclestone admitting this weekend that the number of European rounds will be cut further in the future, the WEC could generate a fair bit of goodwill among drivers, teams and fans by running at a place like Monza if it did get scrubbed off the F1 calendar.

Monza will remain as it has special status, being one of the original F1 GP tracks from 1950.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why the hell did they do that anyway ?

You'll have to ask Bernie.

[Purist]

The official explanations mention a few things. Hockenheim was considered too long, and they wanted the cars running more laps to go by the stands and VIP boxes more times in a race (67 laps now versus 45 laps with the old track). I think the old track had a somewhat more limited spectator capacity, and those farther-flung areas were, obviously, harder to get to. And when they built the new track, they had to take a bite out of the the forest closer in. So, to appease the "greenies", the old track out in the forest was pneumatic-drilled away.

I do NOT think it's likely that the Italian GP will leave Monza, but now, unlike my previous sense of things, NOTHING has untouchable status. (Where's the French GP?) I do think it is possible that the race COULD move to the Ferrari-owned Mugello circuit. (I bet it was considered unthinkable having the Italian GP at Imola, and no F1 race at Monza, prior to the 1980 season.)

There will be room on the calendar now with Spain going to just one race, and possibly none once Alonso is no longer a top dog. Given the threats to Germany, Britain, Belgium (which has missed a couple years recently), and the absence of France, I can also see Hungary certainly being on shaky ground to keep its race.

As I said before though, the WEC should build on a solid foundation, and NOT undermine it while they continue to build. This is especially important because the WEC/WSC does not have the same clout or stability that F1 has historically had (at least over the last 40 years or so). Probably the biggest thing that would really help, apart from having a strong base of those "home" venues in the series, is having a good base of customer cars. Without that, the sorts of fields they had in the WSC at the Mille and Targa would have been impossible. And even 30 years subsequent to that, they were still able to get 75-80+car fields at Daytona and Sebring. And yes, there IS a difference between merely dumbing things down, and making things more accessible/enticing. Sportscar racing in a number of areas definitely NEEDS the latter of those two.

[JHamilton]

How bout the WEC races at Monza anyway? That certainly would be more compelling than the last round...

[kurski]

Originally Posted by trickyd

The WEC could use alternative circuits to F1, maybe in more attractive or less Tilked locations, and could fill the gap in Europe, left by the loss of events there. Or could at least just market itself in a way that people might notice.

I think WEC should not imitate the F1 world and go to run the same track. Must however, to admit that Monza and Nurburgring races would fit WEC calendar. Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez could come in the future WEC calendar. San Luis circuit may not be suitable LMP cars.

[Simmi]

I suppose it comes down to 2014, when they will likely look to expand - where do people want to race?

Another European round in the lead-up to June would be logical.

[aneesh99]

I'm gutted they're going to the Tilke-drome at Austin next year. You go to the one US track that could be copy and pasted anywhere in Europe! CotA doesn't have any American road track features save the uphill run into turn one.

[Purist]

Potrero de los Funes was cleared for FIA GT in 2008, and FIA GT1 in 2010-2011. This means the track had a full FIA Grade 2 certification, and thus would have been cleared for use by LMPs.

Unfortunately, I think the FIA might want to mutilate the Peralta(da) corner before allowing the WEC to go to Mexico City, which would kind of ruin the point of having the circuit on the calendar.

JHamilton, I heartily agree!

Aneesh99, I'm not sure that Austin has ANY distinctly American road course features to it. Frankly, the elevation changes at Istanbul were just as nice, and if anything, were more comprehensive throughout the entire lap. After that rise in the back stretch, the rest of the lap at Austin seems rather flat.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

I'm gutted they're going to the Tilke-drome at Austin next year. You go to the one US track that could be copy and pasted anywhere in Europe! CotA doesn't have any American road track features save the uphill run into turn one.

I agree, especially since there are tracks with heritage that would stir up emotion instead. Still, since it is a double header weekend with the ALMS it is awfully tempting to go. I'm going to the F1 race in a couple of weeks, if it is a good atmosphere I may just do the WEC race weekend there instead of Petit next year which is looking to have a thin grid for a 1000 mile race.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

I'm gutted they're going to the Tilke-drome at Austin next year. You go to the one US track that could be copy and pasted anywhere in Europe! CotA doesn't have any American road track features save the uphill run into turn one.

The WEC is in the odd position that it can't (or doesn't want) to race with the ALMS, but it needs the ALMS when racing in the US. They have to go somewhere to accomodate both series and calendars and that is Austin. Also, I don't think the traditional American circuits fit the image the FIA is going for.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I agree, especially since there are tracks with heritage that would stir up emotion instead. Still, since it is a double header weekend with the ALMS it is awfully tempting to go. I'm going to the F1 race in a couple of weeks, if it is a good atmosphere I may just do the WEC race weekend there instead of Petit next year which is looking to have a thin grid for a 1000 mile race.

A six hour race on a Sunday is tough for traveling. I don't expect a huge crowd for the WEC race.

I've seen worse grids at PLM and it is still a great event.

[Purist]

Frankly, most of us don't give s**t about what sort of "image" the FIA is looking for!

And Watkins Glen now should have a suitable amount of paved run-off to satisfy them, for the sportscars anyway (this isn't F1).

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

How bout the WEC races at Monza anyway? That certainly would be more compelling than the last round...

Agreed

[trickyd]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

I'm gutted they're going to the Tilke-drome at Austin next year. You go to the one US track that could be copy and pasted anywhere in Europe!

You mean copy pasted anywhere between Turkey and Japan.

It is a massive shame Sebring has to go. Its up there on its own between Le Mans and the rest in terms of interest, character and prestige for me. Hopefully sometime in the future, around 2017 or whenever, when/if GrandAm decide to change their rules, it might be able to come back.

If they do decide to expand in 2014, aside from the obvious additions of Italy (Mugello wouldn't be the worst choice in the world, Monza aside) and Germany I would like to see race or two more in Latin America, whether in Argentina or Mexico, or both. They just seem more genuine and less politically motivated than messing around on dull, smog shrouded tarmac seas in Asia.

[Brake dust]

How many races will the WEC grow to in the future? My hope is that number of races at least doubles. Hard to build much interest and momentum with only 6 races. Would like to see a couple of more races in Europe. Would go to Imola, Nurburgring, A-1 Ring and Brands Hatch. Would also like to see better media coverage. FIA/ACO is not even archiving races on their site.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Brake dust

How many races will the WEC grow to in the future? My hope is that number of races at least doubles. Hard to build much interest and momentum with only 6 races. Would like to see a couple of more races in Europe. Would go to Imola, Nurburgring, A-1 Ring and Brands Hatch. Would also like to see better media coverage. FIA/ACO is not even archiving races on their site.

There are eight races right now not six. 10 could be a possibility eventually but I don't really see the rush to extend out the calendar. Many insiders have commented that sticking to 8 rounds for next year is a sensible move.

No use trying to run before you can walk.

[Jacques Rabbit]

The problem is fan interest and team interest become trade-offs at a certain number of races. Teams can only afford so much. I don't know about sponsorships in sports car racing, but if you take out sponsors tied to an owner, tied to a driver, or tied to a manufacturer, you figure there are few. Of those, could they be in a situation not unlike IndyCar's, where they pay for the Indy 500 only and the money is used for the rest of the year (in this case, paying for Le Mans, and the money is used for the rest of it)? In that case, adding events actually hurts sponsor values rather than raising them.

I'd love to see WEC take off, especially as an American about to lose LMP racing as it is here. More races, more GTE teams, all that. But can that happen? I'm not sure.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Brake dust

Would also like to see better media coverage. FIA/ACO is not even archiving races on their site.

I would really appreciate if they did this. More races are never a bad thing for the fans.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I would really appreciate if they did this. More races are never a bad thing for the fans.

Enthusiasts yes, fans, no.

I know many casual motor racing fans who barely watch any of the WEC but happily watch Le Mans in its entirety on the TV. That's because Le Mans is a spectacle.

The more races you have, the less significant each race becomes. In motor racing, and especially our branch of it, you can have too much of a good thing.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Enthusiasts yes, fans, no.

I know many casual motor racing fans who barely watch any of the WEC but happily watch Le Mans in its entirety on the TV. That's because Le Mans is a spectacle.

The more races you have, the less significant each race becomes. In motor racing, and especially our branch of it, you can have too much of a good thing.

Do you think the Monaco GP is less of a spectacle now that F1 has 20 races?

[Maelochs]

I assume a casual fan who won't watch a WEC race but will watch Le Mans won't seek out WEC races online to watch later, but an "enthusiast" certainly would ( I would, with enthusiasm.)

As such, the availability of such races would be a non-issue---the casual fan would not know or care, the enthusiast would be thrilled.

The more enthusiastic the enthusiasts, the more likely they will spread their enthusiasm and help create new casual fans.

So in the end, no real downside and a potential gain.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Do you think the Monaco GP is less of a spectacle now that F1 has 20 races?

Yes, it has lost some of its magic I'm sure. Back in the day, is was one of only a handful of races that were broadcast live on TV. It was unmissable. It also used to have much more prestige to it. These days, it's just 1/20th of a long world championship.

I'm not saying, however, that Le Mans is going to become less of a spectacle. What I am saying, however, as that even as a Le Mans anorak who checks sportscar forums and news sights, I really really couldn't be bothered to get out of bed and watch the Shanghai race. I was seeing my girlfriend later that day and chose not to be grumpy.

If Shanghai was the season opener though, I wouldn't have cared if I'd not got any sleep all night. The race could be anywhere.

A 6 hour race is significant, it has to mean something. 8 races is about right.

[Maelochs]

Eight or eighteen---the more chances for a real fan to watch, the more chances s/he will. if one race conflicts with your schedule, isn't it better if there are twelve or fifteen more, and not only a few more?

The number of races in a series should be based on what the teams and series can afford. NASCAR has 14,000 races each season and draws more to one race than WEC and ALMS combined draw all season--Le Mans aside. Throw Le Mans in and it might take three NASCAR races to equal the tally---and that uis at a time when NASCAR attendance is falling.

If there was a really good endurance race on every weekend I'd be thrilled. Sure, I'd have to miss some (or DVR them, or watch them later online) but that is much better than having a few weeks with no good sports car racing.

More is not always better but saying there will be too many races ... I have yet to see That particular problem develop ever.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Yes, it has lost some of its magic I'm sure. Back in the day, is was one of only a handful of races that were broadcast live on TV. It was unmissable. It also used to have much more prestige to it. These days, it's just 1/20th of a long world championship.

I'm not saying, however, that Le Mans is going to become less of a spectacle. What I am saying, however, as that even as a Le Mans anorak who checks sportscar forums and news sights, I really really couldn't be bothered to get out of bed and watch the Shanghai race. I was seeing my girlfriend later that day and chose not to be grumpy.

If Shanghai was the season opener though, I wouldn't have cared if I'd not got any sleep all night. The race could be anywhere.

A 6 hour race is significant, it has to mean something. 8 races is about right.

I would argue it is the quality of the event, not the quantity, that matters. If the WEC was 4 rounds - Bahrain, Shanghai, CotA, and say one Euro event they would still not be spectacles. However if there was a season that included Sebring, Monza, Silverstone, Spa, Le Mans, Petit Le Mans, Fuji, Interlagos, Imola, Montreal, Laguna Seca, Nurburgring, etc, etc. that would be much more preferrable.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I would argue it is the quality of the event, not the quantity, that matters. If the WEC was 4 rounds - Bahrain, Shanghai, CotA, and say one Euro event they would still not be spectacles. However if there was a season that included Sebring, Monza, Silverstone, Spa, Le Mans, Petit Le Mans, Fuji, Interlagos, Imola, Montreal, Laguna Seca, Nurburgring, etc, etc. that would be much more preferrable.

Okay okay...now you're talking

Although, I still think I'd run out of steam by Laguna Seca in that list. In terms of hours of racing, you're probably talking about two weeks there if the races ran continually. I wouldn't let that happen, just to ensure John Hindhaugh and the RLM team have a chance to live a normal life some of the time, if nothing else!

Of course, Shanghai and Bahrain will be dull whenever you put them on and no matter what order they are placed in, there is truth in that. But I still believe that you could have too many. We could have the World Cup of football (soccer, you know the one) every year, played in tradtional football countries, with just the top footballing nations playing. It wouldn't have any spectacle to it at all.

And with that, I have once again compared endurance racing to soccer. I think it's time for bed.