[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[KingKenny04]

Originally Posted by Purist

There are only so many tracks that can reasonably accommodate enough cars to do those combined events. At a minimum, you would need to be able to handle 50 cars, and really, you want the ability to have 55-60 cars on the grid.

Apart from Fuji/Autopolis and Interlagos, I don't expect the WEC to pick tracks of under 3.0 miles for their standalone events. For a combined event, Interlagos would probably be out. I think you might have to go to Suzuka to handle a combined event in Japan; the only other option that I think would work for sure there is Tokachi. Yeongam would be the only option in Korea, and likewise Shanghai for China.

Philip Island, I suspect, would be a squeeze with a combined APLMS/WEC grid. The one shorter track in the APLMS realm that I could see maybe working, in theory, with a combined field is Sentul; it's wide, has a very simple layout, and should be fairly quick.

I don't see the (E)LMS going any further afield than, possibly, Istanbul, and I think that's a stretch.

That's the point of kicking P2 and and GTE-Am out of the WEC. In a combined event under those conditions, you're only looking at around 10-12 protos and 8-10 (and that's pushing it) GT's coming from the WEC side. Given ELMS grid sizes the past couple of years, and the low expected turnout for AsLMS, an I don't think overcrowding will be a problem. As for GALMS, grid sizes remain to be seen.

It's all moot anyways. The FIA will never go for it, they're much too shortsighted.

[trickyd]

I'm loving the day dreaming going on in here today, we need to find a way of getting Purist a job at the FIA/ACO!

[Purist]

I will gladly accept the recommendation! Thanks, trickyd.

KK04, that's a VERY difficult thing to lay out without knowing what the entries are going to look like in the different series, and I'm discounting the NAEC (or whatever it's called) in my estimations right now. I think each series (WEC, ELMS, AsLMS) NEEDS a bare minimum of 20 entries on its own.

At the last few WEC rounds, LMP1 and GTE-Pro only totaled 12 cars. Even combining the WEC LMP1 grid and the average ALMS GT grid from 2012 only gets you just to that 20-car field. It's not going to be much of a great field combining this year's WEC LMP1 and GTE-Pro classes with the 2012 ELMS grid; that wouldn't even total 30 cars. And who knows what we'll get with the AsLMS, not to mention, their field won't be entirely ACO-compliant, so that will make it a bit skewed there.

I don't like some of the structural things that have gone on, but I must say, a 35-car field for the WEC on its own in 2013 would be quite impressive.

[trickyd]

To my mind the World Endurance Championship, or a World Sportscar Championship by any other name, should be a collection of the worlds biggest/most important/most glamorous sports car races. It might be concentrated largely in Europe and North America but that's where the teams and fans are so it makes sense, just like how the next cricket world cup won't be in Uruguay, and nobody seems to mind that winter world championships are a largely European/American affair. It would look like this:
Daytona 24 Hours
Sebring 12 Hours
Monza 1000km
Spa 1000km
Le Mans 24 Hours
Nurburgring 1000km
Silverstone 1000km
Mil Milhas Brazil
Petit Le Mans
Suzuka 1000km

The American events would be combined with the local championship. I would have the ELMS as the European rounds for GT and P2 teams that didn't attend the other races.

PS. I know this won't happen. I'm just playing along.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Purist

They have enough paving around the Mercedes Arena at the Nurburgring that they could just about reinstate the Castrol Esse without having to add tarmac. They might have to add a little straight on where the road kinks to the right, but other than that, it would almost just be a case of painting the lines and adding the curbings.

They already almost do that for the 24h layout, when the Mercedes arena is used as additional paddock space.

[KingKenny04]

Purist, the idea is the P2 and GTE-Am teams from the WEC would go back to running in their regional championship. So the bulk of the entries would come from the local series, the WEC entries being like a "best of the best" icing on the cake. You're right though, difficult to guess how entries would pan out. I wonder how many teams are able to get the sponsorship money to run the WEC BECAUSE its the WEC?

[Purist]

That's part of the thought process I've been having as well, KK04. I'm suspect a number of the gentleman/sportsman entrants are in the WEC specifically because that is the series they WANT to be in. I'm fairly certain we would LOSE entrants if those participants were told that they would have to pick one of the regional series to run in. That's NOT good news for those providing the customer cars, or for the sport as a whole.

And this whole vein runs against your argument about growing the field. If you get perfect transfer of all LMP2 and GTE-Am entrants from the WEC to the AsLMS, ELMS, and NAEC, there is no net gain in field size. You still have the issue of finding larger tracks to accommodate the grid, because you're adding together all the cars from those regional series, plus the LMP2s and GTE-Ams that were in the WEC, plus the LMP1s and GTE-Pros of the WEC. Transfer of matter/energy does NOT change how much matter/energy there is in the system.

Apart from my note about the ELMS not running a round in the Middle East, I should also add that I don't see the ACO letting there be another 24-hour race in the championship with Le Mans.

And I see your point about standalone events versus combined events. Then again, there is a real perception issue there. I mean, this is a World Championship, and there is a certain expectation that it ought to be able to stand on its own. Some would certainly consider it a sign of weakness if the WEC couldn't generate a substantial field on its own, regardless of whether it has been reduced to only two classes. People complain about LMPC and GTC in the ALMS, but how much more would they complain about the small grids if those classes weren't there?

And no, I am NOT vehemently against combined events; I would actually like them in some cases. I just don't necessarily agree with your rationale for them. Take a look at Post #2232 in this thread, which I wrote. Right there, I recommend that the European rounds, apart from Le Mans itself, be the LMS.

Part of what they're doing with the WEC is a marketing thing, a bit like the provisionals in NASCAR. That is, having a consistent pool of entries, and hopefully, from there, fans can build for themselves an identity of the series and its main entrants, which will allow them to hone favorites that they can root for over a longer period of time. Of course, the flip side is that we lose some of the unpredictability of those oddball and/or one-off entries.

I will say, I do wish that the WEC wasn't quite so dominant in the LM entries. I can see why the ACO favors them in the selection process, but I wish it wasn't such a blanket guarantee of entry at Le Mans.

[gregtummer]

While I don't think the ACO would allow another 24 hour race in the WEC, they need to mix it up a bit. A 24 Hour race with 7 6 Hour races is too boring to me.

That's one thing that I liked about Sebring and Petit in that they added variety in the race distances.

[Purist]

It's a nice thing to have, but it's not exactly a make or break thing for me. Both of my proposed schedules do have some of that variety though.

Something else I hadn't mentioned, but that has occurred to me. Part of me wonders whether the 6-hour duration was settled uopn for marketing reasons. That is, it is a consistent duration, and easy to just go from one round to the next with a uniform label. Also, however, I wonder whether this is a bit of an attempt to intentionally conceal the speed differential between some of the tracks, so as not to make some of the new additions look slow.

[KingKenny04]

There's just something about the WEC in its current format that sticks me. When I think of a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" for sports cars, I think of a championship that includes the most prestigious events in the world. Now, the WEC is a great series, it may become my favored series should the GALMS merger not work out the way I hope it does, but at the moment (to me) it doesn't feel like a "full" WC. Rather, it's a collection of 6 hour races with Le Mans in the middle, and they're calling it a WC to be like F1.

Just assign points to folks who compete at Daytona, Sebring, Mil Milhas, Spa, Le Mans, Silverstone, Petit, and Fuji, call it a World Cup, and I'll be happy

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by KingKenny04

it doesn't feel like a "full" WC. Rather, it's a collection of 6 hour races with Le Mans in the middle, and they're calling it a WC to be like F1.

Well F1 is just 20 monotonous rounds with 17 Tilkedromes in the middle. What makes it so special and "prestigious" anymore?

[gregtummer]

Don't worry, at the rate we are going, it will change to The 24 Hours of Bahrain.

The cars will be known as Bahrain Prototype 1.....

[KingKenny04]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

Well F1 is just 20 monotonous rounds with 17 Tilkedromes in the middle. What makes it so special and "prestigious" anymore?

Exactly. My worry is the WEC might be headed that direction.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

Well F1 is just 20 monotonous rounds with 17 Tilkedromes in the middle. What makes it so special and "prestigious" anymore?

Ask the millions of fans who watch it to the point that it dwarfs the rest of motorsport worldwide. There's clearly more to it than the tracks they go to.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

Well F1 is just 20 monotonous rounds with 17 Tilkedromes in the middle. What makes it so special and "prestigious" anymore?

Why does it even need to be one series versus another? The more racing series there are in the world that are healthy, the better, even if they are ones I don't watch. It's good for the industry as a whole. Take a company like Lola; do they run into such huge trouble if IndyCar had been healthy enough to accommodate multiple suppliers, including Lola, or if there had been a place for them in F1, etc, etc? It's good for there to be interest and health in auto racing, all forms of it.

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Don't worry, at the rate we are going, it will change to The 24 Hours of Bahrain.

The cars will be known as Bahrain Prototype 1.....

The Six Hours of Bahrain was a great race this year if you missed it, Greg. Not my favorite track, but man, that was truly exciting to watch. I'd consider it and Fuji the best of the six-hour ones this year. I really enjoyed that one.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Don't worry, at the rate we are going, it will change to The 24 Hours of Bahrain.

The cars will be known as Bahrain Prototype 1.....

Prototype 1, not bad for a name of a proposed racing series mixed with F1 and LMP cars!

[TF110]

I'd prefer Abu Dhabi to Bahrain. WEC should consider thinking about that.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by TF110

I'd prefer Abu Dhabi to Bahrain. WEC should consider thinking about that.

For sure. Track layout aside, Abu Dhabi is certainly better to look at, especially when the sun goes down.

I reckon Turkey would be an interesting track for the WEC to go to!

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

For sure. Track layout aside, Abu Dhabi is certainly better to look at, especially when the sun goes down.

I reckon Turkey would be an interesting track for the WEC to go to!

I like the India track. That has some badass corners.

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

For sure. Track layout aside, Abu Dhabi is certainly better to look at, especially when the sun goes down.

I reckon Turkey would be an interesting track for the WEC to go to!

Le Mans Series has been there twice, absolutely no desire to return by anyone who worked there.

[TF110]

And there's a stronger desire to return to Bahrain?

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by TF110

And there's a stronger desire to return to Bahrain?

Yes, I think so, having been to the race myself this year.

At least there was enough fuel to finish the race.........

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Samoan Attorney

Yes, I think so, having been to the race myself this year.

At least there was enough fuel to finish the race.........

+1

[Simmi]

I'd hoped that the trip to Bahrain could spark some interest from in that region to get behind a team. Not sure if there is any evidence of that happening. I wonder whether a team could end up adopting the model we've seen in the WRC where money comes in from somewhere like Abu Dhabi to run a privateer works car.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by TF110

And there's a stronger desire to return to Bahrain?

Of course. The races at Istanbul always have been incredibly dull atmosphere-wise.

Bahrain this year was pretty cool, racing into the darkness and everything. Made for great TV pictures too.