ALMS 2011 Discussion

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by TWK

I have known Miles for most of the past decade. He is certainly no stranger to the ALMS paddock. Did you miss the motorsports executive uniquely positioned to assess the prospects of the American Le Mans Series part?

Perhaps you weren't around ALMS paddocks when Penske, Audi, and before that Schnitzer-BMW were there running the LMR and GTR?

I was, and I know to what he refers...a matter of degree. He doesn't even make an exception for the ALMS team he "most intimately" knows about... He knows, and I know that there is a big difference between the paddock productions of the "prototype Stars" of the past and the present GT teams (which is where the "big" teams now are...not in prototype...which is part of his point).

To your first question...has this person been to a race? If you really read it with care (and understanding) you'd know that this individual might be found quite frequently in that very same paddock of which you claim such great knowledge.

What makes this article unique amongst others (some of which I have been involved in) is NOT that it contains a single new point of view, but that it brings together eight items that the author identifies as, ah..."weaknesses." But the BIGGEST difference is not the content but WHO the author is. Unfortunately, I can't tell you that. Perhaps when all the principals have died.

I will say I think he knows the ALMS better than anyone who posts on this forum (that I know of).

I know, I read it completely and I understand that it's from a very, very insider point of view, and I both respect that and appreciate it. It's always good to get a real inside view without the rose colored glasses, no doubt. I should have indicated it was more sarcasm than anything. I am aware that I am a mere mortal as compared to the author...

What I should I have expanded on, and yes I do go to ALMS races every year, is that to the average Joe (and even me, as a diehard fan in a semi-related industry) the ALMS paddock is still very impressive. It's easy to get jaded and think "oh this is a bunch of small-time junk compared to x, y or z" as I do with my day job, but it is clearly cubic dollars regardless. At Sebring the Audi and Peugeot paddocks were both overshadowed by Corvette, Level 5, Lizards, Risi, and the like. They may have had more staff, but as far as visual impact and visible "money spent on the rig, tent, and vast expanses of flooring" they were decidedly more low key, in my opinion. Le Mans it was not, for Audi and Peugeot.

I don't claim superior intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the ALMS - and to me, it's still a pretty impressive sight. To the more-average Joes and Janes, it's probably even more so.

It's a great article, not meaning to disparage it at all, and I enjoyed it very much as I do most everything over on Last Turn Club. I was just calling out that line as being perhaps a little jaded, as if the ALMS paddock is full of Haulmarks and Ford dulleys, like some kind of SCCA weekend, as opposed to the polished half-million dollar-plus rigs and trailers that are actually there.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Looking at the Baltimore schedule, the race has been shortened from original 2h45min to just 2 hours, making it a very similiar event to Long Beach - the race even starts and ends at the same time!

Bummer - according to the Baltimore Grand Prix site it's still 2:45, but on this I'd tend to go with the sanctioning body.

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Wasn't the Audi R8 LMS GT2-ish? And I'm not sure if Mercedes has flipped their decision on not returning to Le Mans....

I tend to think of the Audi as a heavily restricted GT1 car.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

I know, I read it completely and I understand that it's from a very, very insider point of view, and I both respect that and appreciate it. It's always good to get a real inside view without the rose colored glasses, no doubt. I should have indicated it was more sarcasm than anything. I am aware that I am a mere mortal as compared to the author...

What I should I have expanded on, and yes I do go to ALMS races every year, is that to the average Joe (and even me, as a diehard fan in a semi-related industry) the ALMS paddock is still very impressive. It's easy to get jaded and think "oh this is a bunch of small-time junk compared to x, y or z" as I do with my day job, but it is clearly cubic dollars regardless. At Sebring the Audi and Peugeot paddocks were both overshadowed by Corvette, Level 5, Lizards, Risi, and the like. They may have had more staff, but as far as visual impact and visible "money spent on the rig, tent, and vast expanses of flooring" they were decidedly more low key, in my opinion. Le Mans it was not, for Audi and Peugeot.

I don't claim superior intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the ALMS - and to me, it's still a pretty impressive sight. To the more-average Joes and Janes, it's probably even more so.

It's a great article, not meaning to disparage it at all, and I enjoyed it very much as I do most everything over on Last Turn Club. I was just calling out that line as being perhaps a little jaded, as if the ALMS paddock is full of Haulmarks and Ford dulleys, like some kind of SCCA weekend, as opposed to the polished half-million dollar-plus rigs and trailers that are actually there.

I understand your point now, too. Yes, the ALMS paddock is still as impressive as any in motorsport...in this country, anyway (actually, that includes NASCAR). Give the author some license in making his "star" point, is what I am saying.

For now (as I wrote very recently), the ALMS is still the very "best game in town" for road racing. The things that are wrong take a little peeking under the blanket, or the perspective of a decade, but that doesn't (in that particular author's view) make them any less potentially fatal.

This is a case of some of us (and some in that paddock, as in the case of Miles), of hoping we can yell enough to be heard before it's too late. But the sun is setting fast.

See ya'll at Road America.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by TWK

I understand your point now, too. Yes, the ALMS paddock is still as impressive as any in motorsport...in this country, anyway (actually, that includes NASCAR). Give the author some license in making his "star" point, is what I am saying.

For now (as I wrote very recently), the ALMS is still the very "best game in town" for road racing. The things that are wrong take a little peeking under the blanket, or the perspective of a decade, but that doesn't (in that particular author's view) make them any less potentially fatal.

This is a case of some of us (and some in that paddock, as in the case of Miles), of hoping we can yell enough to be heard before it's too late. But the sun is setting fast.

See ya'll at Road America.

I hear ya for sure, and I'm really glad to have the outlet via LTC and Murphy to let the truth out from behind the curtains, so to speak. Thanks! If you're at Baltimore I'll buy the bear a beer

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by TWK

Not enough market to offset the cost?

So , your saying that there is enough market for Benz or a Audi to do so , but Spyker and Lambo did , is their market better ?

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by The Badger

So , your saying that there is enough market for Benz or a Audi to do so , but Spyker and Lambo did , is their market better ?

Given Spyker's how shall we say, "questionable" financial past & present, are they really the example you want to be looking at?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by The Badger

So , your saying that there isnt enough market for Benz or a Audi to do so , but Spyker and Lambo did , is their market better ?

Rephrase that one , sorry .

[AGD]

Originally Posted by arakis

no one is stoping neither Audi nor Mercedes to build GTE race cars

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

Yeah, why haven't Mercedes or Audi built GT2/E variants of those cars yet?

I don't know about Mercedes, but perhaps Audi is under corporate pressure not to compete against Porsche in GTE?

Perhaps Mercedes does not want to spend the money to field a top notch GTE program? They're obviously involved in other forms of racing so the budget may not be there. A bargain basement program won't cut it in GTE right now even with the performance balancing.

Originally Posted by TWK

I will say I think he knows the ALMS better than anyone who posts on this forum (that I know of).

I don't doubt that this person is very knowledgeable if they are an insider, but what does it say if the Ten-Tenths forum hive mind is more knowledgeable about some facts and news than an insider (aside from the fact that we have too much time on our hands)?

Anyway, to say that the ALMS is struggling in some areas and is a bit off from it's best years is a bit obvious even to a casual fan. To that point, I'd love to hear some of this insider's ideas regarding how to make a racing series that will always have a small following relative to other major racing series in the US as viable as it can be (assuming that he believes that it isn't currently) in the current economy.

[AuzGrams]

Any idea when the ALMS 2012 schedule could be announced? I know they announced it at this time frame last year.

[19dodge]

Originally Posted by AuzGrams

Any idea when the ALMS 2012 schedule could be announced? I know they announced it at this time frame last year.

It will out be later this year. Calendar not yet finalized. 9 or 10 rounds for 2012. One possible new venue in a market the ALMS has not previously gone to.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

And I'm not sure if Mercedes has flipped their decision on not returning to Le Mans....

Oh I see what you did there

I can understand whilst VAG wouldnt want two of their companies competing in GT-E (doesnt explain about GT3 but) and I think Mercedes would do well to create a GT-E SLS. But I think as long as the majority of their money goes to F1 and DTM then I think a GT-E car wont happen.

[HJJ]

Anyone have a subscription to AR1? They have a frontpage headline that the IRS is after an ALMS team owner. Would like to know more if anyone could help out.

http://www.autoracing1.com/

[AGD]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Anyone have a subscription to AR1? They have a frontpage headline that the IRS is after an ALMS team owner. Would like to know more if anyone could help out.

It's Jon Field. Surprise surprise I know.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by AGD

It's Jon Field. Surprise surprise I know.

Something new or still fallout from "Bananna Joe's"?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Something new or still fallout from "Bananna Joe's"?

Something new. Details are sketchy, but here are a couple of links on the issue.

http://www.wlwt.com/r/28894626/detail.html
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developi...investigation/

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by AGD

Something new. Details are sketchy, but here are a couple of links on the issue.

http://www.wlwt.com/r/28894626/detail.html
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developi...investigation/

Thanks!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by AGD

Something new. Details are sketchy, but here are a couple of links on the issue.

http://www.wlwt.com/r/28894626/detail.html
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developi...investigation/

If they have done something wrong, that just really shows their dedication to racing. Breaking the law to fund racing - that has been a personal dream of mine too!

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by joeb

If they have done something wrong, that just really shows their dedication to racing. Breaking the law to fund racing - that has been a personal dream of mine too!

That's a dream that a lot of people seem to follow through on.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

That's a dream that a lot of people seem to follow through on.

Whittington bros drug planes landing on the backstretch of Road Atlanta still takes the cake, I think.

[Audi Racer]

Anyone else notice the shift in coverage in the ALMS. i logged on to speedtv.com today and the headlines for ALMS say Corvette's leads Practice 1.(then they say in the article that it was the gt time sheets)

obviously its because of the lousy Prototype numbers but i justthough it was interesting that we can see the immediate effect of the low P1 car count....

back in 2007/2008. all you heard was Audi leads P1, Acura leads P2, Porsche Spyder leads test session in the headlines. today the headlines speak like GT cars are leading the time sheets overall.

[Purist]

Those planes must have been good at short landings, because that straight doesn't stay straight.

Did the John Pauls' elicit activities help fund their racing as well?

Before I knew any of the history, I met John Paul Jr. when he was Paul Dana's driving coach in the Infiniti Pro Series.

Back to the ALMS, the only possible 10th venue I've heard of for next year is the Remington Park temporary circuit in OKC (not the same as the attempted Bricktown street circuit that was supposed to happen this year).

[JAG]

Originally Posted by arakis

no one is stoping neither Audi nor Mercedes to build GTE race cars

As a compromise you could allow manufactuers without a GTE homologated car to run a performance balanced GT3 given Audi and Mercedes are the cars everyone wants.

The ALMS' GT priority must remain GTE, my preferance would be GTE Pro/Am. Smaller privateers in old GTE's is more exciting than a fleet of GTC's.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

As a compromise you could allow manufactuers without a GTE homologated car to run a performance balanced GT3 given Audi and Mercedes are the cars everyone wants.

The ALMS' GT priority must remain GTE, my preferance would be GTE Pro/Am. Smaller privateers in old GTE's is more exciting than a fleet of GTC's.

I agree that GTE-Am would probably be more enjoyable than GTC (at least if it is a one make class), but I'm not sure if there is enough interest. Neiman and the Robertson Robertson cars might sign up. Maybe the Miller and the Brown ESM car. That's not really enough to form a legitimate class though I don't think. Ok, maybe a couple of GTC teams may join in, but I don't know if they would. The GTC format is quite flexible in terms of cost. I don't think the ALMS is interested in doing something that would lead to a net loss of cars.

As far as adding GT3 cars to GTE, I don't think that is such a great idea and I'm not sure if Audi would think that it was a good idea. It's not that hard for these guys to make proper GTE cars if they want to. Some might say that this is already the case, but I don't think the ACO should make a mockery of the rules just to allow everyone under the sun to compete competitively. Who knows if they even want to compete in the first place.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Anyone else notice the shift in coverage in the ALMS. i logged on to speedtv.com today and the headlines for ALMS say Corvette's leads Practice 1.(then they say in the article that it was the gt time sheets)

obviously its because of the lousy Prototype numbers but i justthough it was interesting that we can see the immediate effect of the low P1 car count....

back in 2007/2008. all you heard was Audi leads P1, Acura leads P2, Porsche Spyder leads test session in the headlines. today the headlines speak like GT cars are leading the time sheets overall.

Yeah I've noticed this as well. After Mid Ohio it was "Falken Tire Porsche wins" as the headline and main picture. It wasn't until the points debacle that the Muscle Milk Aston went on the front page.