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Old 24 Apr 2020, 04:46 (Ref:3972555)   #16
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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
I propose we go for the early 90s method. Let's call it WSC 2.0.

Just like how many cars, such as the Courage C36, TWR Porsche and the Kremer K8 were Group C cars with the roof looped off and the bottoms sanded down, I think we should do the same again with early 2010s prototypes. We're going to remove the power trains and get rid of their roofs. Stock block engines too.

TWR represented their former adversaries and turned a Jag into a Porsche. So we need something similar again. I'm imagining TMG acquiring a 2014 Audi R18 chassis and sticking the engine from the new Supra in it.
My sarcasm-detector might be broken, but: How does that help with anything? Modern prototypes, especially those built by factories are designed from the ground up as one integrated system. By chopping off roofs and switching out engines, all one will achieve is to mess up their aero and weight-balance.
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Old 24 Apr 2020, 06:18 (Ref:3972563)   #17
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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
Just like how many cars, such as the Courage C36, TWR Porsche and the Kremer K8 were Group C cars with the roof looped off and the bottoms sanded down, I think we should do the same again with early 2010s prototypes. We're going to remove the power trains and get rid of their roofs. Stock block engines too.
It's about 100x harder to take the roof off the modern integral carbon rollover structure cars than the old steel roll cage on a tub Group C chassis.

DPi having any kind of future is pretty highly optimistic. The only manufacturer that even seems likely that they might stay in that category is Mazda. LMP2 is basically the max for prototypes. Even that might need LMP3 to prop it up, and GT3 has finally found the event that will make all of the growing costs and other problems no longer background concerns that can be swept under the rug, so you might even need to move GT4 up a tier to fill grids.

As is there aren't a ton of cost effective engines that can replace a Gibson in an LMP2 chassis without completely obliterating the cost effectiveness of the car as a whole. They were never designed to be that flexible.
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Old 24 Apr 2020, 08:08 (Ref:3972571)   #18
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Originally Posted by carbsmith View Post
It's about 100x harder to take the roof off the modern integral carbon rollover structure cars than the old steel roll cage on a tub Group C chassis.

DPi having any kind of future is pretty highly optimistic. The only manufacturer that even seems likely that they might stay in that category is Mazda. LMP2 is basically the max for prototypes. Even that might need LMP3 to prop it up, and GT3 has finally found the event that will make all of the growing costs and other problems no longer background concerns that can be swept under the rug, so you might even need to move GT4 up a tier to fill grids.

As is there aren't a ton of cost effective engines that can replace a Gibson in an LMP2 chassis without completely obliterating the cost effectiveness of the car as a whole. They were never designed to be that flexible.
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Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
My sarcasm-detector might be broken, but: How does that help with anything? Modern prototypes, especially those built by factories are designed from the ground up as one integrated system. By chopping off roofs and switching out engines, all one will achieve is to mess up their aero and weight-balance.
You're both being called into pitlane at the end of this lap, you're going behind the wall to have your sarcasm detector looked at.
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Old 25 Apr 2020, 17:17 (Ref:3972840)   #19
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Honestly they should just run Le Mans in 2021 as a 2 Class GT race (GTE & GT3-AM) and figure out what the prototype picture stands after all of the dust settles for 2022. This would bring a ton of manufactures (and their sponsorship $) to the race with great driver lineups. They should also scrap the WEC for a year (focus on the ELMS & AsLMS) and relaunch it in 2022. I donít think Aston Martin survives the crash (their stock price is down to like 30 cents) this but you could probably lure Ford & BMW back.

Last edited by Dyson Mazda; 25 Apr 2020 at 17:23.
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Old 8 May 2020, 23:28 (Ref:3975156)   #20
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Jaime Klein on Motorsport.com has a solution for how the series should proceed in the future. It sounds reasonable, but he is just describing the ILMC. Not that that is a bad thing, and it would definitely make Chiana happy

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-mans/4787978/
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Old 9 May 2020, 00:06 (Ref:3975157)   #21
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Originally Posted by joeb View Post
Jaime Klein on Motorsport.com has a solution for how the series should proceed in the future. It sounds reasonable, but he is just describing the ILMC. Not that that is a bad thing, and it would definitely make Chiana happy

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-mans/4787978/
This is a well written article about the future of Sports Prototype and GT racing.

However, I still feel it does NOT take fully into account, the coming economic recession, and the effect this is going to have on ANY future motorsports!!

Who is going to pay for the ''full fields'' at Le Mans/Daytona, etc? Will there be a glut of commercial sponsors willing to fund this racing? Will there be a glut of personal wealth people willing to fund this racing?

We wait and see, but I think not to both those scenarios.
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Old 11 May 2020, 15:25 (Ref:3975549)   #22
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Originally Posted by truebeliever View Post
This is a well written article about the future of Sports Prototype and GT racing.

However, I still feel it does NOT take fully into account, the coming economic recession, and the effect this is going to have on ANY future motorsports!!

Who is going to pay for the ''full fields'' at Le Mans/Daytona, etc? Will there be a glut of commercial sponsors willing to fund this racing? Will there be a glut of personal wealth people willing to fund this racing?

We wait and see, but I think not to both those scenarios.
Yeah he basically left out the fact that both sponsors and rich guys are about to lose massive amounts of money. I still this a GTE/GT3 bridge until the next round of LMPís is the right play short term.
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Old 11 May 2020, 17:34 (Ref:3975581)   #23
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Where would these GTE cars come from? GT3 grids are going to be gutted too.
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Old 14 May 2020, 16:05 (Ref:3976192)   #24
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Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda View Post
Honestly they should just run Le Mans in 2021 as a 2 Class GT race (GTE & GT3-AM) and figure out what the prototype picture stands after all of the dust settles for 2022. This would bring a ton of manufactures (and their sponsorship $) to the race with great driver lineups. They should also scrap the WEC for a year (focus on the ELMS & AsLMS) and relaunch it in 2022. I donít think Aston Martin survives the crash (their stock price is down to like 30 cents) this but you could probably lure Ford & BMW back.
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Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda View Post
Yeah he basically left out the fact that both sponsors and rich guys are about to lose massive amounts of money. I still this a GTE/GT3 bridge until the next round of LMPís is the right play short term.
Scrap the LMPs now and you'll never get them back, trust me. It's much more expensive to run LMP2s than GT3s at a place like Le Mans, and nobody is gonna justify a sudden and sizable increase in costs. And in the aftermath of the coronavirus justifying any major motorsport expenditures, particularly a multi-million-dollar program centered around one very big race and two fair-sized but expensive series, isn't gonna be easy.

If you went that route, all you'd get for the next decade is the same GT cars.

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Originally Posted by joeb View Post
Jaime Klein on Motorsport.com has a solution for how the series should proceed in the future. It sounds reasonable, but he is just describing the ILMC. Not that that is a bad thing, and it would definitely make Chiana happy

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-mans/4787978/
A truly stupid idea whose entire premise is gonna be based on teams being willing to do Trans-Atlantic trips for the series. Yeah, good luck justifying that.

If anything, they should be going in the opposite direction, entirely scrapping the WEC and directing everyone into the ELMS instead, letting IMSA do their own thing and keeping the AsLMS going only if it can draw a grid big enough to survive, which to be honest I highly, highly doubt.
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Old 15 May 2020, 14:41 (Ref:3976429)   #25
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A truly stupid idea whose entire premise is gonna be based on teams being willing to do Trans-Atlantic trips for the series. Yeah, good luck justifying that.

If anything, they should be going in the opposite direction, entirely scrapping the WEC and directing everyone into the ELMS instead, letting IMSA do their own thing and keeping the AsLMS going only if it can draw a grid big enough to survive, which to be honest I highly, highly doubt.
Two good paragraphs that describe the future, in common sense terms.

Which means neither the ACO or now also, IMSA, will do it!
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Old 19 May 2020, 17:28 (Ref:3977189)   #26
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t sounds reasonable, but he is just describing the ILMC. Not that that is a bad thing, and it would definitely make Chiana happy
Nah, as much is the case with IMSA, the problem with WEC is no longer the calendar, which has (mostly/partly) been fixed. It's cars and internal regulations that are fundamentally broken. Fixing WEC with ILMC format would be like putting band-aid when the patient needs surgery asap. I mean, I guess it could and would make the overall thing slightly less worse, but you know...

In retrospect, I did love the ILMC, almost to the level or even equal to old ALMS. The "shared world" it created between different series and classes combined both the vintage and modern views of sportscar racing. Not only did we have big, varied grids and races that mattered as unique events themselves, but the spirit of the 20th century was still there in terms of constructors competition. But having said that, obviously there were underlying brewing problems happening during it's short lifespan as well: we had GT2/GTE's shady transformation into modern times politics, forced class separation between factory and privateer teams, disputes between ACO and IMSA, the inclusion of Le Mans into the series and it's double points, the birth of driver rankings, the birth of cost cap, the birth of modern fake chassis rebadging etc. Things such as these raised criticism. However, those were what I'd call first world problems in relatively terms. Things which at the time seemed like notable issues, but which now later on can be recognized as (at least partly) useless nagging when compared to what became years after. We should have been more happy than what we have, because in essence we were still living in the golden years. Wasted Years, as Iron Maiden put it.

Last edited by Chiana; 19 May 2020 at 17:57.
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