How would WP/HRT survive without Holden $??

Camaroz · 24 Dec 2008, 07:02 (Ref:2360613)

Just a query! Would Walkinshaw Performance/HRT survive without Holden $'s. That was the chat around a Xmas bbq today.

peckstar · 24 Dec 2008, 07:04 (Ref:2360617)

I would imnagine they would just hunt down a sponsor to replace them. Would they not also have HSV money?

mspence · 24 Dec 2008, 07:54 (Ref:2360627)

When Skaife 'bought' HRT, he did so with a 10-year sponsorship contract from Holden in his pocket - so there's a while to go yet....

WP is a customer operation - as long as they have customers wanting to buy what they sell, they'll continue. What happens to Holden is not crucial.

Camaroz · 24 Dec 2008, 08:10 (Ref:2360631)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mspence

When Skaife 'bought' HRT, he did so with a 10-year sponsorship contract from Holden in his pocket - so there's a while to go yet....

WP is a customer operation - as long as they have customers wanting to buy what they sell, they'll continue. What happens to Holden is not crucial.

Skaife had (has) a ten year deal! Not WP. HMS has customers, supplied by WP. Year by Year?

mspence · 24 Dec 2008, 08:25 (Ref:2360636)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Skaife had (has) a ten year deal! Not WP. HMS has customers, supplied by WP. Year by Year?

The sponsorship contract would be with HRT, not M. Skaife esq. You own the company, you own the contract....

Camaroz · 24 Dec 2008, 08:30 (Ref:2360638)

Sounds like you know whats going on! The Contract was with HRT that was owned by WP anyway! Up for renewal end 2008?

Can you verify that WP will be supported by Holden (to the same level as past) in 2009 and beyond?

Peter Nightingale · 28 Dec 2008, 03:45 (Ref:2361697)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Sounds like you know whats going on! The Contract was with HRT that was owned by WP anyway! Up for renewal end 2008?

Can you verify that WP will be supported by Holden (to the same level as past) in 2009 and beyond?

Does any person know whether GM will survive in todays economic climate ???? if they don't , neither will WP & Holden.......

mountainstar · 28 Dec 2008, 05:59 (Ref:2361717)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Nightingale

Does any person know whether GM will survive in todays economic climate ???? if they don't , neither will WP & Holden.......

GM is legally compartmentalized with all it's world operations and for GM USA, I don't think it's going way. It may change some or a lot, but GM USA will still be around in some fashion. Holden I don't think will be too affected. They are kind of doing their own thing.

SSbaby · 28 Dec 2008, 07:56 (Ref:2361733)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Just a query! Would Walkinshaw Performance/HRT survive without Holden $'s. That was the chat around a Xmas bbq today.

You know, I was wondering the same thing, given Ford's reduced support for its teams.

Both manufacturers are having to find money to keep on keeping on... but something has to give. Maybe another sponsor will chime to become major naming rights sponsor?

I'd hate to think HRT will be a part time participant like in the early years (despite innuendo of being the best funded team at the time) even though players like Perkins contested every round with relatively little funding.

**GTRMagic** · 28 Dec 2008, 07:59 (Ref:2361736)

A hypothetical question...

Do you think $850k is enough money to be asking for naming rights sponsorship on a car, with only a couple of other, trade sponsors (Mobil 1, NGK...) to be on there too?

Presuming any of this actually was thought about

Falcadore · 28 Dec 2008, 09:32 (Ref:2361761)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A hypothetical question...

Do you think $850k is enough money to be asking for naming rights sponsorship on a car, with only a couple of other, trade sponsors (Mobil 1, NGK...) to be on there too?

Presuming any of this actually was thought about

Toll being asked to step up? Still when you can't get naming rights to the team, why bother...

racer69 · 28 Dec 2008, 14:06 (Ref:2361850)

Would HRT (or FPR) even be interested in continuing without the manufacturer backing??

WP could presumebly continue to offer their services as a supplier. Would they want to run a team on their own as well with Holden behind it??

**GTRMagic** · 28 Dec 2008, 20:29 (Ref:2362013)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Toll being asked to step up? Still when you can't get naming rights to the team, why bother...

I was, hypothetically of course, thinking about the sponsor of the 4th WP car, in HYL guise..... allegedly...

Oldtony · 28 Dec 2008, 23:07 (Ref:2362070)

What is the legal status of a wholly owned Australian subsdiary of a US company in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. In past cases they have either been sold at a discount as a going concern, or have been asset striped.
How does HRT or HSV have any value if there are no Holdens comming off the production line to "Special Vehicle" or to form a "Race Team"?
The same could apply to FPR of course.
And don't let anyone tell you GM in chapter 11 can't happen, the "rescue" deal is a ticking time bomb left by GWB for the new administration.

sharkiesrule · 29 Dec 2008, 01:32 (Ref:2362114)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A hypothetical question...

Do you think $850k is enough money to be asking for naming rights sponsorship on a car, with only a couple of other, trade sponsors (Mobil 1, NGK...) to be on there too?

Presuming any of this actually was thought about

Given how there were some drastic re evaluations (downwards) on the value of naming rights over the last few months, I'd suggest that's on par - bit hard to chase bigger money merely for ptoential no??

**GTRMagic** · 29 Dec 2008, 01:34 (Ref:2362116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkiesrule

Given how there were some drastic re evaluations (downwards) on the value of naming rights over the last few months, I'd suggest that's on par - bit hard to chase bigger money merely for ptoential no??

If a car costs $2.5m to run, and you ask $850k for naming rights, and you get $850k out of the TEGA money bin... where does the rest come from??

Answer on a (red) postcard?

**GTRMagic** · 29 Dec 2008, 01:38 (Ref:2362117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldtony

What is the legal status of a wholly owned Australian subsdiary of a US company in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. In past cases they have either been sold at a discount as a going concern, or have been asset striped.
How does HRT or HSV have any value if there are no Holdens comming off the production line to "Special Vehicle" or to form a "Race Team"?
The same could apply to FPR of course.
And don't let anyone tell you GM in chapter 11 can't happen, the "rescue" deal is a ticking time bomb left by GWB for the new administration.

Chapter 11 will come, eventually. Implications are huge.. for the local company, in that they likely have parent guarantees to continue operations, to allow banking facilities to continue to exist. It is more than likely that any debt for the local arm is guaranteed to some extent by the parent.

So.. if the parent gets wobbly, the local entity shall also have interesting challenges, with the local banks likely asking for alternate security for their debts.

Enter stage left... KRuddBot.

A consortium of bankers to take over the local debt, to refinance it... with explicit guarantees and potentially management oversight of a local board..

To keep Aussies in jobs...

Back in the old days, this would be fixed by ComFleet (or its previous gestations) placing large orders from a particular car maker in trouble. Maybe it will again....

This will still cause significant stress to dealers, to the suppliers to dealers, to the carmaker and parts suppliers, to owners of the cars which might be as saleable as a 380....

We will see...

Peter Nightingale · 29 Dec 2008, 05:20 (Ref:2362146)

No such trouble for Ford Australia, they are SAFE... and i MEAN safe....

fomoco · 30 Dec 2008, 01:27 (Ref:2362520)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

GM is legally compartmentalized with all it's world operations and for GM USA, I don't think it's going way. It may change some or a lot, but GM USA will still be around in some fashion. Holden I don't think will be too affected. They are kind of doing their own thing.

having spent time at Fishermansbend. Holden can't do anything with out approval from Detroit. And the way the yanks run a bisuness into the ground, I hope that Holden breaks free, and continues to support motorpsort in Aust.

**GTRMagic** · 30 Dec 2008, 01:29 (Ref:2362521)

Tata + Holden = ??????

Oldtony · 30 Dec 2008, 02:06 (Ref:2362529)

Peter Nightingale. Agreed that Foed look the safest of the big three, but Kirk Kerkorian has sold all his Ford shares, and seeing as he owned 133.5 million shares as at July that indicates a fairly big loss of faith by a big industry player.
Ford's biggest problem could be if GM goes chapter 11 the administrators will have a wonderful opportunity to clean out the management there, renegotiate or dump the UAW, dump unproductive dealers etc. That would make GM a much tougher competitor in the recovery period after the recession.
If GM does go Chapter 11, and there needs to be local debt reconstruction for GMH, one would hope that something is done to ensure more independence for local management. I think looking around the local corporate scene it is very difficult to find a US originated CEO or CFO who is doing anything for his company or for this country.

nic.v814 · 1 Jan 2009, 09:26 (Ref:2363590)

Holden + Tata -that would be a joke

Peter Nightingale · 2 Jan 2009, 01:14 (Ref:2363871)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nic.v814

Holden + Tata -that would be a joke

That is realy not correct, Tata already own Jaguar/Landrover so why not one more.....

SSbaby · 2 Jan 2009, 02:24 (Ref:2363882)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Nightingale

No such trouble for Ford Australia, they are SAFE... and i MEAN safe....

May I use that quote as a sig?

I don't know if the Ford fans are living in glass houses sometimes... but Ford are in as much trouble as GM... just a few months behind, if the two scenarios are looked at in isolation.

Kerkorian made a 14 % profit on selling his stake in GM to increase his stake in MGM. He had Ford shares as collateral for his credit line... and he was under the impression Ford would make a profit in 2009. Since then, Ford shares nosedived and Ford have announced the profit will come in 2011 instead.

How much confidence does that give you regarding the future of any company? Maybe the FFs are eternal optimists.. or maybe just high risk takers?

nic.v814 · 2 Jan 2009, 03:27 (Ref:2363886)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Nightingale

That is realy not correct, Tata already own Jaguar/Landrover so why not one more.....

I dont care if tata owns holden as long as they dont rebadge tata cars and sell them as holdens thats the point i was trying to make

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