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Old 19 Feb 2019, 19:59 (Ref:3885423)   #16
chunder
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
So, lose the crowds on circuit races, if no-one goes to watch it.

Most rallies are free, MSV only makes you pay to pay for a championship, and they were always cheap initially until Palmer realised how much money he can make.

There were a few people watching at Snett this weekend gone.

As for the spare tyres, the road events I can understand, why should the council have to pay for damage, but on tracks, it's a private venue FFS, and the stages are also designed to be miles away from people and any obstacles, woe betide anyone hits a fence.

I get it I really do, but dumbing it down to such a level is not going to appease speccys for long.

And I have seen lots of footage from Riponian and Cambrian, not much evidence of pens on either, about time this was all dropped and a pass introduced for poeple who spectate regularly and understand the risks, allowing them to go anywhere within reason
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 22:30 (Ref:3885443)   #17
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deley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unfortunately the increase in the need to apply restrictions on spectators on rallies is directly related to the increase in the number of people who don't have sufficient common sense to keep themselves safely out of the way.
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 23:24 (Ref:3885449)   #18
chunder
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It is mainly due to what happened in Scotland a few years ago and the MSA cacking themselves as a result.

Some system of training and then banding would easily sort this out, I would happily pay for a band or pas that would allow access to stages in receipt of the required training and awareness.

But no, treat everyone the same as usual, a few were idiots so in the MSA's eyes you are all are. Genius
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Old 11 May 2019, 09:52 (Ref:3903115)   #19
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andrewn7 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandrewn7 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Too many series with too few entries doesn't help. I'm at Oulton now watching the grand total of 6 TCR/TCT cars go round!

MX5's barely in double figures, same with the FF1600s. Only the Civic EP3s have a full grid.

My Son is coming along later, bought up on a diet of blancpain (40+ car grids) and F1. I doubt he'll be impressed with today's grassroots offering.

I understand that combining series isn't as simple as it sounds, but there must be a better answer than this?
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Old 11 May 2019, 15:46 (Ref:3903164)   #20
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Too many series with too few entries doesn't help. I'm at Oulton now watching the grand total of 6 TCR/TCT cars go round!

MX5's barely in double figures, same with the FF1600s. Only the Civic EP3s have a full grid.

My Son is coming along later, bought up on a diet of blancpain (40+ car grids) and F1. I doubt he'll be impressed with today's grassroots offering.

I understand that combining series isn't as simple as it sounds, but there must be a better answer than this?
You need to pick your meetings better - read this weeks column by Marcus Pye in Autosport waxing lyricsl about CSCCs recent Silverstone meeting.
And if F1 is the benchmark for your Son, then its a pretty low bar if you know where to look.
If Oulton is your local circuit CSCC are the May Babk Holiday saturday and monday. Enjoy.
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Old 12 May 2019, 05:48 (Ref:3903252)   #21
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I was back doing my hack role at CSCC and , as said , if you want to see how club racing can work , go to a CSCC meeting. Huge entry and simply extraordinary diversity of cars , from Frogeye Sprite , via Skyline and 911, to Cortinas and Sevens.
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Old 12 May 2019, 11:54 (Ref:3903293)   #22
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fergus_r should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unfortunately the three club meetings running over the UK this weekend (one BARC, two BRSCC) are showing absolutely the worst of British motor racing. The entries across the board are terrible, even championships with 30+ car grids have dropped into the low teens.

That's just the nature of the sport, some championships rise and others fall. The one consistency is that there's too much on offer and that's only going to get worse.

There's always a reason for a championship not working but I feel many organisers live in blissful ignorance, or just don't care.
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Old 12 May 2019, 16:02 (Ref:3903339)   #23
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Unfortunately the three club meetings running over the UK this weekend (one BARC, two BRSCC) are showing absolutely the worst of British motor racing.
Without wishing to dilute the above point, MSVR's Snetterton meeting this weekend has some pretty reasonable/good grids (although of the MINI grids is pretty dire). In respect of the BARC meeting at Brands, it is perhaps also worth noting that the meeting was due to feature the opening rounds of the (needless) Jaguar Series Elite. With two entries on the books, the races and practice were relegated to being 'exhibition races'. In essence, it is a lot of track time devoted to few cars, without official timing.

In addition to the sparse nature of some of the grids, a further concern is the lack of marshals at events. Since this season started, I've received an email every couple of days from one organising club, or another, highlighting shortages at their events. It wasn't that long ago that such pleas for help were pretty rare, and generally not this early in the year.
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Old 12 May 2019, 17:57 (Ref:3903352)   #24
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mark_l should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmark_l should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There appears to be no will at Motorsport UK to cull under performing championships. They charge for championship permits and seem only to happy to keep taking the money without looking after the best interests of motorsport.

They need to force poorly supported series to merge or be culled. Spectators are not going to pay hard earned money to watch 5 cars go around a track, I won't call that a race. Marshals don't want to give up their time and at their own expense to stand trackside for poorly supported events, often in poor weather. I know I used to be a marshal and soon started to look at entry lists and attend only events I felt were worthwhile.

The organising clubs seem to be unwilling to cull poor championships instead quite happy to fill a race card with low grid races and keep taking entry fees. They should be amalgamating grids, there are too many one makes series that could be put together with individual classes, I'm sure drivers would rather be in a race of 25-30 other cars rather than competing against a single figure grid.

Motorsport UK has make noises about taking action against this sort of problem in the past but have still failed to do so.
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Old 13 May 2019, 17:49 (Ref:3903537)   #25
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andrewn7 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandrewn7 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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There appears to be no will at Motorsport UK to cull under performing championships. They charge for championship permits and seem only to happy to keep taking the money without looking after the best interests of motorsport.

They need to force poorly supported series to merge or be culled. Spectators are not going to pay hard earned money to watch 5 cars go around a track, I won't call that a race. Marshals don't want to give up their time and at their own expense to stand trackside for poorly supported events, often in poor weather. I know I used to be a marshal and soon started to look at entry lists and attend only events I felt were worthwhile.

The organising clubs seem to be unwilling to cull poor championships instead quite happy to fill a race card with low grid races and keep taking entry fees. They should be amalgamating grids, there are too many one makes series that could be put together with individual classes, I'm sure drivers would rather be in a race of 25-30 other cars rather than competing against a single figure grid.

Motorsport UK has make noises about taking action against this sort of problem in the past but have still failed to do so.
Totally agree. And Andy97, I'm aware that alternatives are on offer, I've been an Oulton regular for most of my 44 years on earth And I've seen many ups and downs in that time, think Aurora AFX, Porsche cup a few years ago, some of the AMOC events in recent times, Zetec FFords, etc, etc.

The point I'm making is that, for somebody new to grassroots motorsport, a racecard full of empty grids is a massive turn off. These lessons have all been learned before so instead of re-learning them why don't the clubs, organising and sanctioning bodies work together and stop it happening?

P.s. Just for the record my Son ended up going with a friend and stuck it out all day but the first thing he said to me when he came in was "you wouldn't believe the TCR/TCT grid, 7 cars, why do they hold races with so few entries?" ME: "well you know how it is Son, racing is expensive, and they're probably hoping to grow the grid later in the year". SON: "Mmmm, I don't understand why they don't combine the grids with another championship?". ME: "Mmmm, yeah"
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Old 14 May 2019, 06:58 (Ref:3903635)   #26
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Simple rule - if you can't field at least 16 cars then you either don't start , or you become a class in another race. I have rarely , if ever, in 50 years of watching live motor sport seen such a charade as Britcar and TCR 'races' with a handful of cars each but an absurdly misplaced sense of self importance . Utterly risible ,and any newcomer to live sport would never return .
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Old 14 May 2019, 07:10 (Ref:3903638)   #27
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Simple rule - if you can't field at least 16 cars then you either don't start , or you become a class in another race.
By that logic, should the 2005 BTCC championship have been abandoned, or become a class in another race?
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Old 14 May 2019, 08:53 (Ref:3903652)   #28
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By that logic, should the 2005 BTCC championship have been abandoned, or become a class in another race?
Yes, one or the other...
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Old 14 May 2019, 09:36 (Ref:3903659)   #29
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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By that logic, should the 2005 BTCC championship have been abandoned, or become a class in another race?
Yes, it would have been a powerful message tothe sport/ industry.
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Old 14 May 2019, 11:36 (Ref:3903678)   #30
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Yes, one or the other...
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Yes, it would have been a powerful message tothe sport/ industry.
In my mind, that would have been a very short sighted approach to the situation.

The grid size went up to mid-20's for the next few seasons, which would never have happened if the 'powerful message' had been sent.

Small grids are not necessarily a bad thing, provided the series remains sustainable. The main thing to look at is what plans are in place to raise the level of competition across a grid, rather than just pure numbers.

Take F1, where it currently faces criticism for a number of reasons. I have also heard similar criticism from many people at BTCC events during the Porsche races. It is not just about the numbers, but about the competitive nature of the racing that makes a series worthwhile.
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