Arrows top 4!

[Glen]

I would like to be fighting in the 'after top 3' club. That is a realistic objective.

Quote from Arrows' new chief designer Sergio Rinland. (Full story at Formula1.com)

First reaction: Oh yea, dream on.

There again: That's what I would have said a year ago, and he helped take Sauber to number four spot.

There again: With any luck the 2002 midfield will be the most competitve for a while - Renault on the up; Sauber hanging in there; new Jaguar management and engine; Revitalised BAR (stretching credibility on that one!); and (hopefully) excellent Jordan team with good drivers.

[f1manoz]

Arrows top 4?

One word:

NO


But, with a Rinland designed car, plus a works Ford engine, the future is bright, the future is Orange Arrows-Cosworth! And if HHF joins alongside Jos, then they also have quite a healthy driver pairing.

[Bononi]

Yeah, I don't think so.

Right now they're a big question mark...

[paulzinho]

[Glen]

Obviously, I agree with the doubters!

I think they should work to realistic targets - Minardi, Toyota, Prost must be beaten (and will be).

But then you get to Jaguar, with the same engine and works Ford budget, so to get on terms with them would be a major coup.

Also Sauber, with Ferrari power... and then the two Honda teams! Not to mention Renault!

Seventh would be exceptionally good, and eighth or ninth is more likely.

[Red]

Politics. Always seek what’s hidden deep inside. In our case, since I don’t believe that Arrows would want to beat Jaguar, that will mean err, Jags will one of the top 3 and most probably kicking McLaren-Mercedes down in 5th. Now that’s what I call a perfectly elaborated business-plan.

















Or, more likely, a typical proof of media professionalism and integrity and people-have-the-right-to-know. Fighting in “after top 3” club means not limping in “last 3” club. This indeed is a realistic objective but in this case the aforementioned statement has nothing spectacular in it. Formual1.com..... in moments like this I can fully understand and support Bernie’s efforts to close them down

[Hugh Jarce]

He obviously uses the same media-coach as DC.

Ever the optimist, never the realist.

[srinimax]

in this case i think arrows has a better shot at their objective than dc. i'm quite impressed with "the boss". he's proven more than once that he is pretty capable.

[Glen]

Red

What are you talking about? Formula1 didn't state that Arrows would be going for 4th, only that Sergio Rinland said they should be. He issued a statement, they printed it. Why on earth would you have any problem with that!

I look at quite a few sites for news every day, and always go back to Formula1 as my favourite - they are usually the first, they go into good detail, and the site is well designed and efficient.

I also like PlanetF1, but its rare that they have anything that F1 doesn't and the site is more clumsy. Daily F1 is good too, and sometimes quicker than the others with breaking stories.

Jaguar top three? Don't think so.

[Red]

Actually Glen, that’s exactly what Formula1.com said. Not Rinland. They sticked the “Rinland: Arrows should be aiming for fourth” title, to something that Rinland didn’t say. I don’t pretend that I’m right, but formula1.com is one of the worst journalism examples, according to my ideas of what journalism must be.

[Glen]

Red

...not big enough in terms of budget and in terms of a lot of the other things that makes a team succeed - to actually say for certain that we're going to be 4th next year. But that should be our aim from where we are today.

That's Rinland's quote.

So, if he says it should be our aim to be 4th (as he does, in this quote) in what way have F1.com misquoted him?

[Red]

Originally posted by Glen
in what way have F1.com misquoted him?

Come on Glen! Now, would you say that you should aim for tenth?! Rinland said what I said earlier: a realistic objective is to become a midfield team (that is "after top 3 club"). Actually I believe that Rinland is a bit defeatist. I believe that every team’s or driver goal is to win the Championship. Someday, not tomorrow.

PS: Why not a top 3 Jaguar?

[Glen]

I completely agree that mid field is the best they could hope for - and have said as much earlier in the thread.

However, and this barely seems worth the typing effort, Rinland said (referring to being 4th, and specifically referring to 4th (rather than using a more general expression)) "that should be our aim".

I think it's nonsense, but he did say it.

Jaguar beat Mclaren? Only if the new Merc is a bit let-down and the new Ford is a revelation. Also, Jaguar are still without the bespoke factory facility and dedicated 24/7 wind tunnel facility that they so badly need - whereas Mclaren are one of the better teams facilities and infrastructure wise. Also, Mclaren and Jaguar wil be head-to-head on the same (MIchelin) tyres.

[steve nielsen]

He means Arrows must be in the group behind Ferrari,Williams and Mclaren , not that they will be 4th in the championship.....

And did'nt Sauber finish behind Arrows last season??

[Stephen Green]

If Arrows have the same engine as Jaguar then I believe Arrows will finish higher than Jaguar. The Arrows chasis to date have been more than a match for the old Stewart ones, just look back a couple of years when Arrows ran the Supertec engine, no-one laughed then!

[Red]

Glen,

What I reproach to formula1.com (not only them, to all journalists) is their tendency of “selling” a trivial fact as an astounding wonder. Rinland said only sensible things: they have some sort of a budget, facilities, a good engine, experience, and in the future they should aim for higher than 10 spot in the standings. He didn’t mention a deadline. This is not a nonsense, is perfectly understandable. (My goal is to become a millionaire; it is a realistic objective; that does not mean that I state that I will be one; anyway, not tomorrow but the day after tomorrow See what I mean?)
---------
Honda, Ford, Toyota or Renault are not there to fill the grid. They are there to win and they do have the resources. Hmmm, probably we disagree because I didn’t clearly say that I don’t mean next season.

[badoer fan]

*Has fallen off chair laughing*

[Minardi fan]

Jaguar in the top 3? *ahem*

Arrows will do better next season than they did this year, if only because the engine will be more powerful. However to expect them to beat Jordan, BAR and the rejuvenated Sauber is a bit over the top.

[EERO]

Stranger things have happened. Who would have picked Sauber 4th at this time last year?

I also doubt Sauber will be as effective next season as they were this. The Cossie is no slug, a decent chassis and a decent #2 driver could see Arrows pull a few surprises. Jaguar may suffer a real shock and the Honda teams could suffer the same indifferent results as this season.

Its anyone's guess.

The best I can foresee is that Jordan, BAR, Jag, Arrows and Suber will be closely matched, followed by Minardi with TOYOTA bringing up the rear.I suspect prost will be history.

[Tristan]

Jag have still got potential for a HUGE budget. Due to the managerial upheavals at Ford recently the team will go one of two ways. They'll either

a) Give up either at the end of this year or, more likley, next or...

b) They'll be BIG contenders within three years. Ford aren't going to be satisfied with mediocrity.

[Stephen Green]

Maybe Ford will change the brand they wish to support, so it could become Volvo or Ford or...........

[Tristan]

Nah, the Jag brand makes sense. I'll be interested to see if VAG's entry (if it ever materialises) goes with the Audi or (hopefully) Lamborghini brand. Or maybe both!! Audi-Lamborghini. Nice ring, non?? (oohh, a pun!! Very good, Tristan!)

[Stephen Green]

Audi Team Prost (Skoda) Formula 1

[Bononi]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Audi Team Prost (Skoda) Formula 1

Cooul it be ????



Too late maybe.