Mercedes Thinking

[903cc]

Mercedes must be getting extremely embarassed by the F1 project at the moment. Hardly what I believe they would like to portray as there image particularly, as reliability is touted as one of there road cars "values".

McLaren must be also very agitated by them and I believe that there must be some ultimatums either about to be delivered or being delviered. Very much like McLaren did when Peugeot was the engine supplier.

Will Mercedes do a Peugeot and withdraw from F1 if they cannot get there act together this year. I understand the situation is a little different in the fact that Mercedes have some equity in McLaren. However I am sure there must be some performance clauses and hence penalties for Merc in the contract somewhere.

What does the forum think?

[frederick]

Is it really all down to Mercedes?
is the installation of the engine in the Mac a contributing factor?
enough cooling? the right control systems?

I don't know but it seems strange that the engines are suddenly so fragile this year, I know that they made changes for the one engine rule but i would have expected them to blow towards the end of a race not in the first 20 laps or so (or during Friday and Saturday running)

[f1atic]

I watched the race at a friend's on his bigggggggggg screen TV. Then we had a cook out on his new grill.

His wife said the grill has to have a name.
After a brief discussion, it was named Mercedes because of its shiny stainless steel grey appearance and it does light up in flames. lol

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by 903cc

Will Mercedes do a Peugeot and withdraw from F1 if they cannot get there act together this year. I understand the situation is a little different in the fact that Mercedes have some equity in McLaren. However I am sure there must be some performance clauses and hence penalties for Merc in the contract somewhere.

What does the forum think?

I can't see that situation any time soon. Unlike BMW with Williams, Merc has lot of shares in McLaren.

The thing with Peugeot is they never really made it. Mercedes have won World Championships and they're on their back foot at the moment. The whole point of manufacturers in F1 is to sell road cars. They want to get back on top. They have things to prove.

[Rick]

This year is right up there with their Le Mans campaign! Haven't been back there since.

[RWC]

From all the comments i've seen and also common sense suggests....
they took too many risks in the development and some of them are biting back
Now they can either iron out the problems,start again from scratch or (if they now have a good understanding of the problems) redesign the engine slightly to eliminate the problem areas (using most of the old parts)
Unfortunately none of these options are easy or quick,Adrien Newey suggested it'll be next year before they are equal with others and the year after before thay are king of the heap again....if that's what they want!

All they can do is grin and bear it 'till it's all back on track
But i do think mac will persevere with merc

[grumpy1]

I cant see Mercedes walking away a failure.It would destroy there image so they will hang around and if possible the current problem will be turned into a cleaver marketing tool.

The Grumpy1

[Pierre]

The image for Mercedes Benz now is , BANG BANG BANG BANG !!!!!!!? isn,t about time they fixed it. The staff want a vey large and hard kick where it really hurts....May be some very new talent... Their corporate image is ??????????????????????????

[climb]

Fortunately for them, DTM is helping Merc to save their faces.
AFAK F1 is being a source of continuous humiliations.
They are somewhat forced to stay in, but something has to change radically.
I'm really surprised that, whereas FW have replaced patrick Head, at Macs nothing has changed though performances have been 1,000 times worse.

[Dixie Flatline]

I don't think it all that likely that Mercedes will walk away from Formula One, tail between legs, and let BMW dominate the perception of German motorsport around the world.

Perhaps the man under the most strain is Norbert Haug. He's helped McLaren to two world titles (drivers and constructors) in the late 90s by running Mercedes' Formula One campaigns, but I would have thought his direction would be where Ron and Adrian are directing most of their questions.

[Armco Bender]

How much is Mercs fault and how much is the parc ferme thing causing teams to front up with sick engines on race day when they could have been repaired/replaced?,is it just me or has there been a lot more engine failures this season?

[climb]

The parc ferme rule is the same for everybody; furthermore DC run with a new engine, and had the same problem of Kimi.
Therefore if the merc engine doesn't work, it cannot be at a rule's fault, it simply doesn't work.

[903cc]

It is clear that Mercedes is having a problem with the engine and it is the worst in the pack for reliability.

Mercedes has walked away with failure before. Le Mans with the flipper.

I agree it seems strange there is no public reshuffles from Merc.

[Amaroo Park]

There was a coment on the coverage last night that Martin Whitemarsh CEO of McLaren had now also taken responsibility for Ilmor

[Pierre]

What difference will Martin Whitemarsh make to Ilmor.? Has he got the ability to instill the winning culture into the ILMOR organisation? The culture of this company has a long way to go to be winners again....

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by Pierre
What difference will Martin Whitemarsh make to Ilmor.? Has he got the ability to instill the winning culture into the ILMOR organisation? The culture of this company has a long way to go to be winners again....

What just like he is doing a McLaren

[Pierre]

Really what is he doing at Mc Laren .At this time we are unawear where the problem is. Engine or installation in the chassis .What ever is the situation, he is ultimatley responsible for the mistakes...better his hide than mine or yours.....

[Logrence]

I think the main problem with the engines is that the Merc engine guru (can't remember his name, used to work at BMW) and Mario Illien aren't even on speaking terms.

McLaren problems or not, how do you improve and engine system when the two guys in charge of the company making it won't even talk to each other?

[jj2728]

personally i derive great pleasure from mclaren's current woes.....

[Adam43]

Schadenfreude, a noble emotion.

[climb]

Originally posted by jj2728
personally i derive great pleasure from mclaren's current woes.....

As a Tifosi, I'd prefer to see them losing for a fingernail

[1200Datto27]

I have noticed that it always seems to be the left hand bank that fils, Anyone have any ideas why?

[BootsOntheSide]

It's not unknown for companies who have previously enjouyed great success to walk away while failing, and return later, stronger - Renault in 1985 and Honda in 1992 for example. Maybe that is what Mercedes should do.

However, not only do they own part of the team, but I suspect they will be looking to later buy it out. Having Martin Whitmarsh moved across might help, because hwe's got a very strong record, but it does mean they'll need to reorganise in the short term, when (like Williams) they urgently need ot focus on on-track matters.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
However, not only do they own part of the team, but I suspect they will be looking to later buy it out. Having Martin Whitmarsh moved across might help, because hwe's got a very strong record, but it does mean they'll need to reorganise in the short term, when (like Williams) they urgently need ot focus on on-track matters.

Exactly. And I think it will happen very soon.

[Homer Simpson]

OT, but with a Merc buyout of McLaren, do you suppose a change in top management? Any chance Newey, Dennis, and others would be replaced? Thing is, McLaren is a big diverse organization, and they have other projects beside the F1 team...