LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Sard will be in lmp2, team called "Team SARD Morand" with an as yet to be named car. Dome planning to test in Aragon from the 31st, and at least 5 teams are set for wec lmp2.

Are they still planning to rebadge the engine as Toyota?

Although you do say "at least", five sounds absurdly low number for the class for what we have heard. In any case GTE-AM must be pushing it down badly

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Possibly an almighty draft? Maybe passed out of TR by two LMP1 cars who then ran side-by-side down the Mulsanne and punched a gigantic hole in the air for the P2 car following them?

Sounds like a working theory, mr Data.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Team SARD Morand will be using upgraded Morgan LMP2 cars, most likely powered by rebranded Judd engines.

Lameness intensifies....

[TF110]

Thats 5 teams though, not cars. G-Drive, KCMG, Oak, Strakka, Team Sard Morand and probably SMP being the 6th. G-Drive rumored 2, SMP rumored 2, Sard rumored 2 to my knowledge. Even if the other three use only 1 car, thats 9 lmp2's. Pretty good imo.

[knighty]

I can well believe kron got sucked into buying the most powerful engine, which is the judd engine for sure, unfortunately its not the fastest acellerating engine due to a circa 20-30% torque defecit to the nissan and HPD engines which have masses of torque through the rev range and do actually last the distance with good fuel economy.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Thats 5 teams though, not cars. G-Drive, KCMG, Oak, Strakka, Team Sard Morand and probably SMP being the 6th. G-Drive rumored 2, SMP rumored 2, Sard rumored 2 to my knowledge. Even if the other three use only 1 car, thats 9 lmp2's. Pretty good imo.

Plus the expected two-car entry of ESM

[Deleted]

Why does Oak want to run in the full series under their banner? I though they said they don't want to compete against their own (coupe) cars.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Why does Oak want to run in the full series under their banner? I though they said they don't want to compete against their own (coupe) cars.

Logic I could see would be a full season essentially am entry for Nicolet accompanied by the likes of Ihara etc. Not likely to 'compete' with anyone running a serious customer Morgan or Ligier programme, but as full season runners capable of taking points away from some of the competition.

Would points being awarded to the Oak that ran in the latter part of last year have made a material difference to SMP's title?

[Deleted]

Dunno, but if Oak had been allowed to get those points as non full season entry (as they should've) then SMP would've also been classified behind all the ELMS P2s at Le Mans so...

[MyNameIsNigel]

Seeing Oak being listed on the testing schedule does not necessarily mean that they will end up racing in the WEC.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Dunno, but if Oak had been allowed to get those points as non full season entry (as they should've) then SMP would've also been classified behind all the ELMS P2s at Le Mans so...

Hence why I can see the logic in Oak running a 'third' car as a full season entrant - so being eligible for points - a hedge against the absurdity of 2014's end result.

Ideally we'd have a situation where one off entrants get scored the same way as everyone else, but if that's not going to happen you can see why Oak would do something they figured might lessen the chances of it happening again.

[Deleted]

Maybe but if this theoretical car would be filled with Nicolet + pay drivers, what exactly could they do to help the customers. Pretty much nothing on pace so you'd need top opposition to have serious issues

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by knighty

I can well believe kron got sucked into buying the most powerful engine, which is the judd engine for sure, unfortunately its not the fastest acellerating engine due to a circa 20-30% torque defecit to the nissan and HPD engines which have masses of torque through the rev range and do actually last the distance with good fuel economy.

Maybe Tracy Krohn didn't want such a torquey engine? Can't be that bad as it took a win and multiple podiums in ELMS last year.

[hondafan37]

Beaumesnil: “The IMSA and ACO Presidents Want LMP2 to Succeed”
http://sportscar365.com/industry/bea...p2-to-succeed/

[Deleted]

Yes and and another piece from MP, more questions asked
http://www.racer.com/aco-sporting-di...=1&limitstart=

Sum up from both

- 2017 future plannings ongoing right now (Tuesday), "guidelines" should come out before Le Mans followed by further discussions/updates in fall, and then "advanced" regulations by the end of the year
- New LMP2 around 3 second faster at Le Mans, 60 horsepower increase (small boost for LMGTE as well)
- While they do want continuity, basically the message also is that if the new formula is gonna make the new cars such as Oak/HPD/SMP/Oreca/whatever obsolete or in need of modifications, "it's their own fault" for not waiting til 2017 regs
- No diesel, **** **** Mazda we don't want that fuel here (unless your name was Patrick Dempsey in case which it was fine, but no he's not with you so that's that). But it's OK in P1 because apparently there it has never caused issues, ever
- No decisions on US DP-esque bodywork brandings, nor engines in general

[Dyson Mazda]

At the end of the day, the new P2 just needs to be the GT3 for LMP's. It needs to be an affordable, reliable global platform designed specifically for privateers. That is what the need to get to and I have hope that it might work out.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

At the end of the day, the new P2 just needs to be the GT3 for LMP's. That is what the need to get to and I have hope that it might work out.

That is the worst suggestion I've ever heard. Well today at least I don't want prototype manufacturers building whatever the **** they want and ACO then bopping them all together and adjusting that mess on race by race basis.

It's fine as it is - and this comes from someone who really wasn't into it at all couple of years ago - the only thing really needed is performance upgrade. Which seems to happening with these 2017 updates in small doze at least (60 hp)

Anyway, the impression you get from both of those interview pieces is that they really haven't made much progression at all from September or whenever it was when they talked about these the last time. Lots of "I can't tell" and "need to be discussed". About time to get this train going!

[BullMan]

The article from Racer showed how far apart IMSA and ACO are on dumb manufacturer bodywork. The French are going to do whatever they want, and IMSA is going to have deal with it.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by BullMan

The article from Racer showed how far apart IMSA and ACO are on dumb manufacturer bodywork. The French are going to do whatever they want, and IMSA is going to have deal with it.

For once ACO's aristocratic way of handling global things may do good...

[TF110]

Some of the comments are hillarious. As usual, imsa wants to spend little to nothing to change to what everyone else is doing but be accepted while being the exception.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

Some of the comments are hillarious. As usual, imsa wants to spend little to nothing to change to what everyone else is doing but be accepted while being the exception.

In all fairness IMSA/ALMS/Don Panoz started what everyone else is doing. I do not think this is true at all btw. TUSC has already committed to FIA GT3, ACO GTLM, and I think will be very close at the end of the day to ACO P2.

[TF110]

How is manufacturer teams close to lmp2, which is private teams? They want their way and dont want to go to where manufacturer teams are- lmp1. Thats basically saying they want cheap cars (price capped lmp2's) but have the 'factory' behind it. Instead of spending some money to go to lmp1 they want to run close to what they already know, but change the rules to allow their special case for manufacturer-like bodies. Why should rules followed by everywhere else in the world be changed because Chevy and Ford dont want to step up where their peers race? Thats how I see it. Just go with how p2's would be or go to lmp1/gte.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by BullMan

The article from Racer showed how far apart IMSA and ACO are on dumb manufacturer bodywork. The French are going to do whatever they want, and IMSA is going to have deal with it.

Good!!

The ACO aren't perfect but are certainly handling LMP2 much better then IMSA.

[TzeiTzei]

Somehow those interviews left a bad taste in my mouth.

Nothing has been decided. In two years these cars will have had their first race. The concept of the car should be ready by now, so that those who actually build and race them have time to plan ahead.

Not allowing current LMP2s to race in 2017 will definitely boost the car numbers in 2016 . IF that happens then it could be a very bleak year for LMP2 racing. And at the same time it's a big **** *** for any manufacturer designing a new coupe right now. I mean, who is going to buy a car that is obsolete in two years' time. Great stuff.

Like Chiana said: **** *** Mazda. Although I expect IMSA to allow them to race anyway. If they are still around.

Put more powerful engines in to the cars. Leave the chassis as they are, except for maybe some of the cost cutting measures Beaumesnil mentioned. Let them use DP style bodywork if they feel like it. Who said that a prototype has to look like it came from Mars. If they're not competitive in ACO racing... too bad. IMSA will BoP them anyway in their series to make sure no one gets to benefit for doing a better job than others. There, problem solved. Is my check in the mail yet?

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by BullMan

The article from Racer showed how far apart IMSA and ACO are on dumb manufacturer bodywork. The French are going to do whatever they want, and IMSA is going to have deal with it.

and here is the thing....

There is only one manufacturer who is pushing for body specific manufacturer involvement.

GM.

Ford is basically going GT racing next year and Mazda cares about the engine and not the bodywork. The current TUSC top prototype field is 80% GM Corvette DP.

GM should step up to LMP1 or just get out of prototypes all together. If they said they would do an LMP1 program for the stateside races if other manufacturers like Audi showed up, I believe Audi and others WOULD come over. Their Corvete GTE/GTLM program is awesome. Save some money you are spending on the Corvette DP program and put it in your GT program or just pocket the savings.

So what if Corvettes can't win overall in GTE/GTLM? It does not hurt the brand any.

But, doing what GM wants to P2 SOLELY to give them the opportunity to win at the big events in the states hurts the series more than it helps GM.

Honestly if GM threatened to stay out of prototypes it would not hurt the series. Current prototype teams running Corvette DP would switch to some other P2 chassis.

If you think about it, GM really does not have that much leverage, except for threatening to pull the GTE/GTLM program if they don't get what they want in prototypes...and I don't see that happening.

[MagVanisher]

I can agree with you Danathar when it comes to GM. They shouldn't become so greedy on getting overall wins on the prototype class that it's hurting TUSC in the long run.