F1 to get new noses?

[Marbot]

The FIA will shortly be doing tests on a new front wing.http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16729.html

[Pingguest]

The front wings of the early 1980’s might have been the safest ever.

http://www.awirz.ch/068dea.jpg

[429CJ]

How about 1983 Toleman TG183, front wing is almost like bumper!

http://www.awirz.ch/giacomelli2.jpg

[Hubble]

Originally Posted by 429CJ

How about 1983 Toleman TG183, front wing is almost like bumper!

http://www.awirz.ch/giacomelli2.jpg

But is still narrower than the front or rear wheel track......would not prevent the wheel over wheel accidents

[jondownunder]

Oh dear... the obsession with safety continues. Is it not enough to have bland, homogenised circuits, where you need a telescope to see the cars somewhere across all that tarmac runoff? Now they'll be going out in glorified prototype sportscars if this is ever adopted in the regs - and I will look elsewhere for motorsport that still leaves me in awe and admiration for the drivers.

[Scott Moyse]

why don't they just put a big steel bar across the back of the cars like they do with go karts? ROFLMAO! May as well, would save all this money they are wasting on research. idiots. Or use a proximity sensor, that cuts revs when they get with centimeters?

[Adam43]

Outrageous! I'm not sure why, but it must be.

Are there any other articles on this? Any drawing or pictures of what we are talking about? I'd like to see. That article tells us little other than they are looking at changing the front wing. Maybe it will be introduced with a reduction in downforce?

[Knowlesy]

I can't judge this until I get pictures! No doubt Autosport will 'bless' us with exactly that in a massive two page news spread on Thursday!

I can't see them enclosing the wheels though.

[Sodemo]

Well, if its anything like the hideous rear wing assembly the FIA mooted for 2008, I really can't wait to ridicule it!

[BootsOntheSide]

Maybe these new wings will prevent flip-over crashes, such as the one we saw at Imola, but isn't there a risk that they will change those accidents into heavy impacts with barriers, which are actually much more dangerous? Drivers flipping over have walked away in F1 ever time I can remember, the potentially-fatal crashes are those such as Burti's at Spa 2001,w hen a car goes into a barrier before any energy has disspated.

[Knowlesy]

I think the issue here is to protect crowds and track workers.

However, it is quite possible that doing this will have negative side effects, I agree. But I would hope they would research this!

[Mekola]

Maybe FIA would want to impose car noses like this of the March 761... the front of that car was really like a front bumper!!!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

But I would hope they would research this!

Which is what the article is about - research into a potential new wing configuration. I fail to see the outrage associated in the FIA doing research. Surely that is a good thing?

A car doesn't slow down as much when it is in the air, but I see you point Boots. However the barriers in Burti's accident were the main problem. It would stop a Ralf/Rubens/Australia type acident, or even one at higher speed.

[Sodemo]

I think only the HANS device is the fully 100% good measure introduced by the FIA over the last 10 years.

Obviously the car impact tests being more tough has also increased safety (but thats natural progression).

Grooved tyres were meant to be introduced to reduce corner speeds, but as a side effect of the narrow track cars, they ended up going faster in a straight line so they arrived at corners faster than previous.
A secondary effect was that the cars were far more nervous and knife edge, hardly increasing safety in my view.

Grooved tyres have been universally hated since they came into F1 in 1998, yet we are still stuck with them, virtually everyone wants the return of slicks, but for some reason the FIA hasn't been able to re-introduce these into F1, which if coupled with a reduction in downforce, would make for better, safer racing.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by The Monster

I think only the HANS device is the fully 100% good measure introduced by the FIA over the last 10 years.

Cockpit headreast padding can't be argued with either, surely.

[Knowlesy]

In terms of safety improvements, the FIA can't be faulted IMO.

Except for the groove tyre/narrow track cars mentioned, everything else has been very effective. Nobody has died in a Formula 1 car for 12 years.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by The Monster

I think only the HANS device is the fully 100% good measure introduced by the FIA over the last 10 years.

Obviously the car impact tests being more tough has also increased safety (but thats natural progression).

Grooved tyres were meant to be introduced to reduce corner speeds, but as a side effect of the narrow track cars, they ended up going faster in a straight line so they arrived at corners faster than previous.
A secondary effect was that the cars were far more nervous and knife edge, hardly increasing safety in my view.

Grooved tyres have been universally hated since they came into F1 in 1998, yet we are still stuck with them, virtually everyone wants the return of slicks, but for some reason the FIA hasn't been able to re-introduce these into F1, which if coupled with a reduction in downforce, would make for better, safer racing.

Max Mosley has always been keen on reducing the mechanical grip. During the FISA-FOCA war in the early 1980's, both Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone wanted to keep the skirts. To reduce the cornering speeds Mosley proposed smaller, grooved tyres. Unlucky for him, or lucky for the fans, the tyre manufactures didn't accept that proposal and threatened to leave F1. So, the proposal was never introduced. But Mosley would never forget that idea ever since.

Mosley won the elections for the FIA presidency in November 1991. It was too late to change the 1992 regulations, so Max Mosley had to wait until 1993 to narrow the tyres and cars. The narrow tyres and narrow track cars were considered as dangerous. It made Ayrton Senna even to fear large accidents.

In contrast what was expected and wished by the drivers after the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, the 18 inch tyres and 215 cm chassis were not reintroduced by the FIA. Mosley decided to make problem even worse. The tyres and cars narrowed again, despite protests of most drivers.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Cockpit headreast padding can't be argued with either, surely.

Yep, though I thought that was introduced in 1995 post Senna, but I may be wrong.

[rustyfan]

Short of fully enclosing the wheels there is no way they would be able to eliminate cars going airborne due to wheel-to-wheel contact - the forces involved are simply too powerful.

Not sure why the FIA is so worried, to be honest - it's not like we see any close racing in Formula 1 that can lead to such crashes anyway.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

Oh dear... the obsession with safety continues. Is it not enough to have bland, homogenised circuits, where you need a telescope to see the cars somewhere across all that tarmac runoff? Now they'll be going out in glorified prototype sportscars if this is ever adopted in the regs - and I will look elsewhere for motorsport that still leaves me in awe and admiration for the drivers.

I was thinking that...

I'm all for safety, but c'mon. This is Formula 1. These guys arn't getting paid rediculous-loads to drive a quick bumper car around a nice easy track.

I know this sounds shallow but..

Selby

[Logrence]

They could just make them Le Mans prototypes.

[M Coupe]

Originally Posted by The Monster

Yep, though I thought that was introduced in 1995 post Senna, but I may be wrong.

Not quite, it was post Wendlingers accident at Monaco. Sauber introduced immediately and the rule was introduced the following year IIRC.

[chillibowl]

i think its great that the FIA is taking the inititive to try new things out. someone has to. wheter it works or not wont be clear until they try it and even if it does work its not certain they will use it. its just research.

as far a saftey goes, people pay loads to go to these races, take time off, organize holidays etc...all of which gets ruined pretty fast when your kid asks you if that marshal who just got hit with a flying car is sleeping. i know thats extreme, but saftey concerns must be kept at the forefront.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i think its great that the FIA is taking the inititive to try new things out. someone has to. wheter it works or not wont be clear until they try it and even if it does work its not certain they will use it. its just research.

as far a saftey goes, people pay loads to go to these races, take time off, organize holidays etc...all of which gets ruined pretty fast when your kid asks you if that marshal who just got hit with a flying car is sleeping. i know thats extreme, but saftey concerns must be kept at the forefront.

Question is, when do you push the hunt for safety too far? At what point will the crowd get bored by seeing a distant parade where the cars rarely - if ever - fight for position and look like they go on rails rather than being driven on the edge?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

Question is, when do you push the hunt for safety too far?

i agree to the extent that it is possible to go to far in so much as the cars are moving to fast slow them down, or that new developments to the cars approved in the name of safety will reduce the on track excitement. where that limit is is hard to say and unfortunalty we probably wont know that until it gets pushed beyond yours or my limit of whats enjoyable.

however, i think what the FIA and F1(bernie, tilke or whoever) is trying to do is maxamize both enjoyment and saftey. for example, the introduction of new lighter weight but still stronger materials, improved fabrication techniqus, hans devices, etc. allow the car and driver to go faster (maxamising entertainment) while offering the security that in the event of a shunt consequences are hopefully not fatal (maxamising saftey).

in any event i have no problem with the FIA conducting as much research as possible in this light and then using that info to increase awarness and ultimatly building from there.