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Old 20 Mar 2023, 12:20 (Ref:4148437)   #1826
Robin Marriott
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Originally Posted by antnee View Post
Where TOCA could improve the coverage is to supplement the ITV coverage, perhaps through a premium app. However this would require things like in-car cameras for every car, better access to timing, etc - then allow the premium users to select different views, etc.
I’m not sure it does. It’s very rare to have in car cameras for most of the stuff available online. ITV/Toca might not accept it but the coverage doesn’t NEED to be that good online, it just needs to exist.

The problem is they want to keep the races in their pocket for any extended stoppages.

I agree they could do with doing something though, I was watching BTCC at my brother’s house ages ago and my nephew came in and asked why they were racing ‘normal cars’. He didn’t even know motorsport outside of F1 existed.
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 12:40 (Ref:4148442)   #1827
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
I’m sure it’ll come with the BTCC game… so never!
Could be done within rFactor 2 - has all but one car now and several tracks
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 12:41 (Ref:4148443)   #1828
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Originally Posted by Daverb View Post
I think between this (hybrid) and Alan Gow will kill off the BTCC.

TCR UK on the up, cheaper with no hybrid. Loss of Ginetta. Dynamics? It seems to be the perfect storm.
Madness - the thought that TCR would replace BTCC.

TCR is great for an amateur, or mid-level, but as a premier class, it's a tough sell. Uninspiring motor vehicles resulting in less spectacle and BoP-dominated results.
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 14:57 (Ref:4148480)   #1829
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Found some TransAm racing from the US on Motorsport mundial, looked pretty good,
Got me wondering why V8 Supercars build their own Mustangs and Camaro's instead of buying the TransAm ones -

Most new cars these days seem to be SUV shape, would changing BTCC into a formula for TransAm type cars be a cost effective and entertaining way forward?
Especially if can run on environmentally favourable fuels?
As looks to me that car manufacturers going more full EV than hybrid anyway?
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 16:06 (Ref:4148494)   #1830
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Originally Posted by BobJones View Post
Madness - the thought that TCR would replace BTCC.

TCR is great for an amateur, or mid-level, but as a premier class, it's a tough sell. Uninspiring motor vehicles resulting in less spectacle and BoP-dominated results.
Agree with this . If TCR was a serious threat then tell me a driver currently entered who has the prospect of a major career like Sutton or Ingram . Last year Chris Smiley entered series and won it , no surprise give his talent . Had entered again this year , backed by the faithful Bert Taylor but you have the impression both would rather be in BTCC and the reason they are not is part finance but also the lack of cars and licences up until now . They could now finance a seat at dynamics but all a bit late and no sense in undoing current plans .
It also has to mentioned that others like Gamble Hand Proctor etc prefer sabbatical than TCR drive .
Trust in Alan Gow he has the know how and had dragged touring cars into new things before with great success . Unless their is a good alternative to this no sense ripping apart his reputation .
We need good development series for the kids , like that enjoyed in Ginetta and then slight adjustments to be made to keep budgets sensible given level of racing that is anticipated and desired .
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 18:02 (Ref:4148516)   #1831
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Originally Posted by BobJones View Post
Madness - the thought that TCR would replace BTCC.

TCR is great for an amateur, or mid-level, but as a premier class, it's a tough sell. Uninspiring motor vehicles resulting in less spectacle and BoP-dominated results.
LOL
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 20:34 (Ref:4148536)   #1832
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Originally Posted by BobJones View Post
Madness - the thought that TCR would replace BTCC.

TCR is great for an amateur, or mid-level, but as a premier class, it's a tough sell. Uninspiring motor vehicles resulting in less spectacle and BoP-dominated results.
Wow, amazing comment...how many professional drivers and world champions past and present are, or have been, involved in the global TCR series?

Not many BTCC drivers of recent years have successfully managed to move up to TCR.
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 21:11 (Ref:4148546)   #1833
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Craner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 21:14 (Ref:4148547)   #1834
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Originally Posted by TR4racer View Post
Not many BTCC drivers of recent years have successfully managed to move up to TCR.
Not many have tried though to be fair.

Of those drivers with BTCC pedigree who have also raced TCR (I'm not sure I would qualify it as 'up' yet), I would say there are three categories:

Successful
None

Competitive
Huff (successful in STCC)
Lloyd (successful in regional series)

Struggled
Priaulx
Shedden
Thompson


Looking at the calibre of drivers, and their respective records in BTCC (and elsewhere) it suggests to me that the TCR discipline is a different challenge and for some drivers it's an adjustment that they are not able to make.

It doesn't confirm (for me) that TCR is more or less difficult to be successful at - just different.
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 21:19 (Ref:4148549)   #1835
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Originally Posted by Protonman View Post
Agree with this . If TCR was a serious threat then tell me a driver currently entered who has the prospect of a major career like Sutton or Ingram .
If you are talking about TCR UK only - Lewis Kent, Hugo Cook and Lewis Brown all have the prospect of major career success.

If you are talking wider TCR drivers - Mikel Azcona Troyas, Isidro Callejas, Dario Isidoro Vezzaro and Bailey Sweeny all look like they have the talent to be a major success in BTCC if they moved in that direction.
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 22:30 (Ref:4148562)   #1836
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Not many have tried though to be fair.

Of those drivers with BTCC pedigree who have also raced TCR (I'm not sure I would qualify it as 'up' yet), I would say there are three categories:

Successful
None

Competitive
Huff (successful in STCC)
Lloyd (successful in regional series)

Struggled
Priaulx
Shedden
Thompson


Looking at the calibre of drivers, and their respective records in BTCC (and elsewhere) it suggests to me that the TCR discipline is a different challenge and for some drivers it's an adjustment that they are not able to make.

It doesn't confirm (for me) that TCR is more or less difficult to be successful at - just different.

Ash Sutton entered an Oulton TCR UK round a few years back and won both races by a country mile. He also dabbled in some TCR Europe a few years back and was a front runner. Spa rings a bell.

TCR UK is looking stronger this year, it may be slightly less professional than the BTCC but at least it’s genuine and doesn’t have to follow silly agendas involving electric motors to tick boxes.
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 22:39 (Ref:4148566)   #1837
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Originally Posted by JDMROB View Post
but at least it’s genuine and doesn’t have to follow silly agendas involving electric motors to tick boxes.
Ummm you do know that tcr move to hybrid next year don’t you?
(was delayed from last year)
https://www.touringcars.net/2022/12/...yed-until-2024
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 22:52 (Ref:4148569)   #1838
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Originally Posted by JDMROB View Post
Ash Sutton entered an Oulton TCR UK round a few years back and won both races by a country mile. He also dabbled in some TCR Europe a few years back and was a front runner. Spa rings a bell.
Yes - I just felt that the volume of races for Ash in TCR is not enough to make a consideration of how successful he is in that formula. He hasn't completed a season of TCR to judge final standings against.
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Old 20 Mar 2023, 23:09 (Ref:4148572)   #1839
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
Ummm you do know that tcr move to hybrid next year don’t you?
(was delayed from last year)
https://www.touringcars.net/2022/12/...yed-until-2024
No I had missed that.

Will TCR UK run them regulations straight away I wonder?
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 00:57 (Ref:4148578)   #1840
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Stewart Lines specifically stated that TCR UK won't go hybrid. Too costly, which I can understand with it just getting on it's feet. Plus he said on Facebook he simply doesn't like it.

I guess that means it won't be part of the TCR World Tour anytime soon. They'd have to switch to Kumho tyres, and I imagine by the time that could happen they'd have to be running hybrid.

On the boring old TCR v BTCC thing, it's all about money. Look at TCR this year and it's like BTCC. Some talent at the front, and older drivers with backing at the rear.

As for talent on the other side, the TCR drivers that are prospects are younger than their equivalents in the BTCC, how many really young drivers have made an impact in the last few years in BTCC. Patterson? Great talent, won't go anywhere I fear unless he doubles his budget. Like the post above said, Lewis Kent, had a good BTCC test. Lewis Brown, Jenson Brickley. Alex Ley. Look at that kid. In a year when Smiley walked it (Won two races at opposite ends of the year) Ley won three aged 17.

None of the youngsters in either series re going to get a proper shot like Sutton did in 16/17. I think with finances as they are you're still going to find Turks, Sutton, Ingram and the like getting the top drives.

And don't get me wrong, I'm a Smiley fan, but his 300K budget and unlimited tyres in testing scored less overall points than Issac Smith in a banged up old golf. There is a kid who has the speed and headspace to win in BTCC.

Having said all that, I expect Boardley to win a race at least this year. If you can survive 10th to 20th in BTCC then you can handle the pressure at the front in TCR. Even if it's a reverse grid thing.
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 06:41 (Ref:4148590)   #1841
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No I had missed that.

Will TCR UK run them regulations straight away I wonder?
Ah , does this mean it’s now a good idea and not a gimmick ?…..
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 07:16 (Ref:4148595)   #1842
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When discussing TCR it’s really not accuracy to compare TCR UK to the strength of some other, more serious series.
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 09:24 (Ref:4148603)   #1843
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When discussing TCR it’s really not accuracy to compare TCR UK to the strength of some other, more serious series.
I can agree with this. Much as my respect has grown for TCR over here, most of the cars are second hand. Long way behind Australia and Europe and especially those races with Wickens and Herta in the states.

I always thought that they'd have had a better thing when they ran old BTCC cars, considering how many are about. Apart from the Audi S3 in Britcar are there any 'retired' NGTC cars being raced?

I know they had the Matt Neal Civic, two Ciceley A Class, a BMW 125 and A Rob Austin Audi (plus a few BTCC teams at the end of 2019 ran their current cars in one race.) But ae they just too complicated for the average spanner? I've seen them online being advertised as decent for club racing but don't know of any that have been.
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 10:20 (Ref:4148619)   #1844
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
If you are talking wider TCR drivers - Mikel Azcona Troyas, Isidro Callejas, Dario Isidoro Vezzaro and Bailey Sweeny all look like they have the talent to be a major success in BTCC if they moved in that direction.
Vezzaro has, to my knowledge, only contested one TCR race, which was an endurance race where he shared a car and ultimately failed to finish.

Ignacio Montenegro looks promising, though.
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 10:56 (Ref:4148623)   #1845
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Vezzaro will probably stay in Argentina, that is still the top series over there. Don't know much about Montenegro
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 11:37 (Ref:4148635)   #1846
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TCR UK is looking stronger this year, it may be slightly less professional than the BTCC but at least it’s genuine and doesn’t have to follow silly agendas involving electric motors to tick boxes.
The BoP is the antithesis of genuine.
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 11:42 (Ref:4148639)   #1847
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Originally Posted by BobJones View Post
The BoP is the antithesis of genuine.
Where does that leave the BTCC when shifting CoG and altering power output?
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 12:29 (Ref:4148651)   #1848
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Hi just to clarify my thoughts from yesterday I was only comparing BTCC with TCR UK . Unlike many others I have never watched or known much of the other series other than the little seen on tv for the World Series which was a very different kettle of fish but seemed bogged down by politics .
As others hint the UK series is a bit behind others In professionalism . Up to now only using 2nd hand cars and mainly for club drivers . I understand some new kit may be added this year with as mentioned elsewhere sone good but young drivers . However how do these drivers progress other than travelling overseas to race in areas of more prestige . Their doesn’t appear to be anything else strangely other than to potentially enter the BTCC . I don’t do streaming so up to now my knowledge is based on little more than space in the motoring press , all of which give extensive coverage to the tourers and just a few lines to others . If I can find ways I would like to watch more and see how it compares .
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 13:05 (Ref:4148655)   #1849
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The BoP is the antithesis of genuine.
Problem would be that some cars would be fundamentally quicker than others Bob, hence the BTCC and others have little choice but to use their equalisations methods.
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Old 21 Mar 2023, 13:26 (Ref:4148663)   #1850
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No no, I'm saying the BTCC is 'genuine' either, just that neither is TCR, l.o.l.
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