2023 Rallying

[NaBUru38]

A Rally2 costs 260k euros plus taxes. A TCR is almost half as cheap.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

A Rally2 costs 260k euros plus taxes. A TCR is almost half as cheap.

True - but a rally 2 is still significantly cheaper than a rally 1 and the cost hasn't been a barrier to large numbers being bought. I wonder what the total sales figures are for each class (TCR vs R5/Rally 2).

Rally 2 is of course also 4wd rather than TCR being 2wd so there's extra complexity and cost involved there. I'm not sure if there are any differences in terms of shell strength required? (TCR is designed to run on smooth tarmac only, Rally 2 is multi surface). Is TCR more equivalent to Rally 4? (2WD) - those are significantly cheaper than the Rally 2 cars.

[S griffin]

Great win by Neuville, nice to see him back on top. Costly mistake by Ogier. The Toyotas really do not like water it seems!

[NaBUru38]

TCR cars have 350 hp engines and a weight 1250-1300 kg depending on ballast.

[BertMk2]

Rally Kenya underway - whilst the event is a shadow of the old Safari rallies it's still a great event (always a good one for some stunning photos). Katsuta binned his car on the shakedown but it looks like they got it fixed (from the crash I thought they might have had some cage damage). Tanak wins the super special to start the event but the real action starts tomorrow.

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Rally Kenya underway - whilst the event is a shadow of the old Safari rallies it's still a great event (always a good one for some stunning photos)

But is it really great? It's another bog standard generic WRC event, like all the rest. Using the Safari name is a bit much for me......

For me, it's the perfect example of where the WRC has gone down the wrong route.....

And already many cars have had issues....

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

But is it really great? It's another bog standard generic WRC event, like all the rest. Using the Safari name is a bit much for me......

For me, it's the perfect example of where the WRC has gone down the wrong route.....

And already many cars have had issues....

I totally agree that it's not the event it once was and that the Safari name probably isn't deserved. I think it still warrants its place on the calendar though - it's still a huge technical challenge, it's still different in character to other events and it's still taking top level rallying into Africa. It's an event I look forward to - some of the images that come out of this rally are superb and really showcase the sport (the coverage could and should be better though).

[cg7aa]

A wonderful tribute to Craig, a bit different from a lot of the tributes out there. This one is just the man and his co-drivers in action on the stages over the years. I had forgotten about some of the cars Craig drove until I saw this.

Just engine sounds and full attack mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvI-Xl7b0M

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

A wonderful tribute to Craig, a bit different from a lot of the tributes out there. This one is just the man and his co-drivers in action on the stages over the years. I had forgotten about some of the cars Craig drove until I saw this.

Just engine sounds and full attack mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvI-Xl7b0M

A more traditional tribute with talking heads...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdgZA2VksDw

[cg7aa]

Hello everyone,

It's been a while; work has been so busy in the last 2 months I only caught up with the events of Portugal and Sardinia recently. It's quite easy to avoid results these days as coverage isn't what it used to be but that's another story.

A couple of points and questions (yes, I know I could just as easily find answers elsewhere online but I prefer the civilised engagement on this forum)...

Just what happened to Elfyn in Portugal? I'm still in the dark about his crash because the highlights program didn't feel the need to tell me in any detail what happened. Go figure.

Still on Portugal...did the younger Solberg really get penalised for some doughnuts on a stage so that he lost the WRC2 win? Draconian in the extreme if true.

Onto Sardinia...who knew water splashes could still destroy rallies? It's funny how lessons learned by one generation fades from the collective me and have to be re-learned by the next. I remember cars having such problems in Argentina and the likes back in the mid-2000s!

When Ogier was explaining his off in the highlights show I was watching, I was thinking 'man, he's got the excuses book out now' as the explanation seemed rather longwinded until the footage from the footwell was shown! He was absolutely right. What a way to lose a rally.

General rambling now...Poor old Loubet, what rotten luck so far. The poor fella's luck must change sometime surely? The unreliability of the Fords continues to baffle me. I mean this is MSport, what's going on with the car prep? Tanak always seems to have a niggling issue of some sort or another.

Maybe it's just me but Tanak seems to taking all the car problems and frustrations in his stride -publicly anyway. There's something different about him, can't quite put my finger on it but he seems quite humorous in his stage-end interviews. Maybe it's unintentional.

Finally, it seems a few of the drivers (notably Tanak and Lappi) are now channelling Craig Breen in the own ways during their stage interviews. There seems to be more humour; Lappi was good value in that respect in Sardinia even when his car was hopping like crazy over the stage bumps (reminded me of using default setups on gravel in RBR!)

The end.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier...a-wrc-rethink/

Now Ogier has his say; interestingly, Dirtfish completely glossed over this in the event review......

Cars, events, promotion, etc needs all looking at.

Feels like that article could have been way longer. Maybe it was cut for 'reasons of space' or if one was to be cynical, because Dirtfish did not want to bite the hand that feeds it?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Just what happened to Elfyn in Portugal? I'm still in the dark about his crash because the highlights program didn't feel the need to tell me in any detail what happened. Go figure.

As far as I can tell he just ran a bit wide, hit a bank and that tipped the car into a roll. They went into the trees and there was a fire. The car was pretty mangled but it didn't look like it burnt out.

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Still on Portugal...did the younger Solberg really get penalised for some doughnuts on a stage so that he lost the WRC2 win? Draconian in the extreme if true.

Yep. He got penalised for the donuts - I couldn't work out if it was just for doing donuts or where he did them.

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Onto Sardinia...who knew water splashes could still destroy rallies? It's funny how lessons learned by one generation fades from the collective me and have to be re-learned by the next. I remember cars having such problems in Argentina and the likes back in the mid-2000s!

I was surprised by that too - also they didn't seem to be learning on the event - they'd still head into the water splashes at speed even after their first dunking had caused problems.

Originally Posted by cg7aa

When Ogier was explaining his off in the highlights show I was watching, I was thinking 'man, he's got the excuses book out now' as the explanation seemed rather longwinded until the footage from the footwell was shown! He was absolutely right. What a way to lose a rally.

The old "muddy boots" excuse shows how such a minor slip can have such big consequences.

Originally Posted by cg7aa

General rambling now...Poor old Loubet, what rotten luck so far. The poor fella's luck must change sometime surely? The unreliability of the Fords continues to baffle me. I mean this is MSport, what's going on with the car prep? Tanak always seems to have a niggling issue of some sort or another.

Maybe it's just me but Tanak seems to taking all the car problems and frustrations in his stride -publicly anyway. There's something different about him, can't quite put my finger on it but he seems quite humorous in his stage-end interviews. Maybe it's unintentional.

The Pumas have always seemed to be unreliable - certianly moreso than either the Toyotas or Hyundais, there are problems on every event it seems. Maybe Loubet's inexperience contributes to some of his problems but Tanak is getting problems too. I think maybe Tanak's attitude is very much "I knew this year would be tough" so isn't getting too stressed by the problems?

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Finally, it seems a few of the drivers (notably Tanak and Lappi) are now channelling Craig Breen in the own ways during their stage interviews. There seems to be more humour; Lappi was good value in that respect in Sardinia even when his car was hopping like crazy over the stage bumps (reminded me of using default setups on gravel in RBR!)

I think Lappi and Tanak have always been some of the 'better' drivers for their stage end interviews (as Breen was). They actually seem to give a bit more of their own personality rather than just give bland 'nothing' answers (Evans is very bad at this).

[BertMk2]

I've not caught up on the Safari coverage yet - but I did see that Neuville had been excluded for illegal recce information. Seems an odd one - did they have gravel crews on this event? If so why would you need additional eyes on the ground? If not was it only Neuville that had the extra 'help' or is it only him that got caught?

[S griffin]

Another win for Ogier, but Rovanpera is looking good for another title atm. Very strange exclusion for Neuville, I agree

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

As far as I can tell he just ran a bit wide, hit a bank and that tipped the car into a roll. They went into the trees and there was a fire. The car was pretty mangled but it didn't look like it burnt out.



Yep. He got penalised for the donuts - I couldn't work out if it was just for doing donuts or where he did them.



I was surprised by that too - also they didn't seem to be learning on the event - they'd still head into the water splashes at speed even after their first dunking had caused problems.



The old "muddy boots" excuse shows how such a minor slip can have such big consequences.



The Pumas have always seemed to be unreliable - certianly moreso than either the Toyotas or Hyundais, there are problems on every event it seems. Maybe Loubet's inexperience contributes to some of his problems but Tanak is getting problems too. I think maybe Tanak's attitude is very much "I knew this year would be tough" so isn't getting too stressed by the problems?



I think Lappi and Tanak have always been some of the 'better' drivers for their stage end interviews (as Breen was). They actually seem to give a bit more of their own personality rather than just give bland 'nothing' answers (Evans is very bad at this).

Some good stuff there, BertMk2. Thanks

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I've not caught up on the Safari coverage yet - but I did see that Neuville had been excluded for illegal recce information. Seems an odd one - did they have gravel crews on this event? If so why would you need additional eyes on the ground? If not was it only Neuville that had the extra 'help' or is it only him that got caught?

Neuville's disqualification is news to me. Will have to look into that. I have watched the 'Safari' highlights and I have one question...do we need all that rear aero kit given what Ogier was able to do without what his? His car at times looked like a Dakar car at the back. Discuss.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Neuville's disqualification is news to me. Will have to look into that. I have watched the 'Safari' highlights and I have one question...do we need all that rear aero kit given what Ogier was able to do without what his? His car at times looked like a Dakar car at the back. Discuss.

It's a good point. It seems to me those wings are more for show. After all I can't see how it would help on the loose stuff

[NaBUru38]

Jari-Matti Latvala is back to drive a fourth Toyota Yaris Rally1 at Finland.

[NaBUru38]

The 2023 Rally Estonia is underway.

Just eight Rally1 entries, with Teemu Suninen on the third Hyundai, and no Ogier or Solberg.

[BertMk2]

Eight entries in the top class is very poor.

It'll be interesting to see how Suninen gets on - is this his first outing in the top class since leaving M-Sport?

[NaBUru38]

Finland is underway.

Rovanpera, Lappi and Loubet crashed. Tanak also retired but for an engine failure.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Finland is underway.

Rovanpera, Lappi and Loubet crashed. Tanak also retired but for an engine failure.

A win for Evans after all of the carnage but only 5 Rally 1 cars (and one of those being Latvala in a one off outing) just highlights the lack of depth in the top class. With Rovanpera not being able to restart it has closed the gap at the top of the standings slightly but it still looks like Rovanpera's title to lose.

[tbtstt]

Nice to see Evans taking a win but, as you say, I still think the title is Rovanpera's to lose.

I am desperately sorry for M-Sport/Tanak as well. Just want to see that Puma hold together for a rally so Ott has the chance to fight for a podium (or better still a win).

[BertMk2]

Rally Japan underway - conditions certainly looking tricky - Sordo and Formaux both out after going off on the same corner, Neuville has also binned it. Katsuta was flying but then had a moment and damaged the car (and continued at reduced speed). The gaps in the stage times have to be some of the biggest we've seen for a long while - and Mikklesen was 3rd fastest on SS3 in the Fabia

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Rally Japan underway - conditions certainly looking tricky - Sordo and Formaux both out after going off on the same corner, Neuville has also binned it. Katsuta was flying but then had a moment and damaged the car (and continued at reduced speed). The gaps in the stage times have to be some of the biggest we've seen for a long while - and Mikklesen was 3rd fastest on SS3 in the Fabia

I have been dipping in and out of the live timing this morning and every time I looked it seems like someone else is off or having dramas!

As you say some unusually big gaps in the stage times. Great run from Evans so far, hope he can keep it together.