Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 31 Dec 2003, 08:46 (Ref:824321)   #1
Cougar
Veteran
 
Cougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
South Africa
London(ex RSA)
Posts: 2,422
Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!
What makes a great driver?

There has been much discussion on who the greats of Formula one are. But what factors make them GREAT.

Obviously it will be a combination of many things.

Championshisps won, races won, poll's, fan base (love and hate), charisma to name a few I guess.

Also many times people say that driver is quick BUT he has a good car. Surely there are not BUTs at this level. You get a seat in a good car because you deserve it?
Cougar is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 09:40 (Ref:824351)   #2
Red
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Romania
Bucharest, Romania
Posts: 5,867
Red should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Re: What makes a great driver?

Quote:
Originally posted by Cougar21
You get a seat in a good car because you deserve it?
Precisely! We're all grown boys, we don't really believe anymore that Santa gives a Ferrari or McLaren seat for free, do we?

PS: The old "he had no competition" argument holds absolutely no substance. "He had no competition" not because someone prevented that to happen, but because he was head and shoulders above his competitors.
Red is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 09:47 (Ref:824357)   #3
Cougar
Veteran
 
Cougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
South Africa
London(ex RSA)
Posts: 2,422
Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!
Re: Re: What makes a great driver?

Quote:
Originally posted by Red
PS: The old "he had no competition" argument holds absolutely no substance. "He had no competition" not because someone prevented that to happen, but because he was head and shoulders above his competitors.
Precisely as well! He was head and shoulders above his competitors because he was a great! There is no way you can not have competition at this level! Yes there are diffent standards of competition but most of these guys are the best of the best.
Cougar is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 09:55 (Ref:824365)   #4
Mattracer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
Mattracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In the past getting to F1 at all was talent alone but in more recent times commercial considerations are just as much a bargaining tool a driver and his manager has in the briefcase when doing a deal.

Great drivers can be many things but one thing they always are a fabulous car sorters and inspirational leaders to the team they drive for. Without that, the team dosen't progress and they can't get results which makes them "greater".

Last edited by Mattracer; 31 Dec 2003 at 09:55.
Mattracer is offline  
__________________
Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine

Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 10:10 (Ref:824390)   #5
Red
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Romania
Bucharest, Romania
Posts: 5,867
Red should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't think you're 100% right. Getting in F1 was always about talent + financial solutions. Yes, they could buy their own cars before, but that doesn't mean anything. Only great drivers would get a top car and paid for what they were doing, and only rich kids managed to get there somehow. Nothing changed. Anyway, those bargaining tools always implies talent or capability to become an inspirational leader, etc.

Nowadays, commercial considerations can get you a Minardi or Jordan seat; for 1 year. Definitelly can't get you a top drive. However, you can get a drive that way but promote to a higher level if you're backed by all those bargaining tools you mentioned. See Weber for example.
Red is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 11:10 (Ref:824441)   #6
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
How long before they start cloning F1 drivers?,then you will need a good scientist on your team too.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 11:33 (Ref:824456)   #7
ljakse
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Serbia
Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 1,338
ljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Speed.
That's the only thing that makes a great driver (for me). It's not tactics, it's not points/trophies/titles he won. It's pure speed.
That's why Senna is the greatest ever - taking the pole is pure demonstration of raw speed.

BTW, it still doesn't make me like the driver.
ljakse is offline  
__________________
Let it be
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 11:47 (Ref:824471)   #8
Gt_R
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location:
Singapore
Posts: 5,917
Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Many many factors make a driver a GREAT.

Speed alone only makes him the one of the fastest, but not one of the greatest. (though i agree Senna is one of the greats)

I usually refrain from Greatest EVER, cos we can't compare fairly.

F1 may be more commercial nowadays, but still, only the best would stand above the rest.

A Great driver must impress on many counts. Results/Achievements alone may not be the absolute, but it's a strong representative. A great driver may not get many WDCs/records (ie Gilles), but a driver who achieved alot must be great (Prost,Schumacher,Fangio).

Of course, speed and skills are on track attributes that we judge the driver. They are what we fans can judge for ourselves. The abilities to push the car beyond it's capabilities, the car control, the ability to not throw the car out of a race or overstep its capabilities, the skill to set up the car to achieve the best, the ability to drive around problems are all great attributes of a great driver.

"He has no competition" is just a lousy excuse used to brush off a driver's achievement. Afterall it's easier than to admit that a driver the critics dislike to be superior to the rest..
Gt_R is offline  
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to."
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 11:54 (Ref:824476)   #9
flexible-flyer
Veteran
 
flexible-flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Northern Ireland
the british isles/ireland/ze vorrrld
Posts: 1,128
flexible-flyer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the ability to get something out of nothing.

like senna in the post 91 mclaren.

like villeneuve in the 1980 ferrari.

mansell in the 1988 williams.

schumacher in the 96 ferrari.

not just that ability. i think consistency also. but consistently a winner, when competition is as rough or rougher. there are quite a few examples of this.
flexible-flyer is offline  
__________________
speed delays my life.
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 11:54 (Ref:824477)   #10
Mackmot
Veteran
 
Mackmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
United Kingdom
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,188
Mackmot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
His mother??
Mackmot is offline  
__________________
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 11:59 (Ref:824482)   #11
Cougar
Veteran
 
Cougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
South Africa
London(ex RSA)
Posts: 2,422
Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!Cougar has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally posted by Armco Bender
How long before they start cloning F1 drivers?,then you will need a good scientist on your team too.


Quote:
Originally posted by Mackmot
His mother??


You guys make me crack

Last edited by Cougar21; 31 Dec 2003 at 12:00.
Cougar is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 12:04 (Ref:824485)   #12
Mr V
Veteran
 
Mr V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
The city of bridges (one day!)
Posts: 13,211
Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally posted by Mattracer
In the past getting to F1 at all was talent alone but in more recent times commercial considerations are just as much a bargaining tool a driver and his manager has in the briefcase when doing a deal.

Agreed with that, and as much as i dislike seeing it, i'd rather that than seeing more teams go out of buisness.

But, the cream always rises to the top, the likes of Michael, JPM, Kimi, Alonso, Webber and Button will always do well, because they have natural talent.

The others, like Zolst, Kiesa will always languish at the back of the field but will happy just to be F1 drivers. (as would i if i had the talent to actually make it there myself )
Mr V is offline  
__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2003, 12:18 (Ref:824497)   #13
TuscanR
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Hertfordshire
Posts: 148
TuscanR should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What makes a great driver? hmm well it would have to be lots and lots of sponsorship money, oops sorry thats the answer to what make a next generation formula one driver. What makes a great driver? Skill, Determination and Cunning lots of Cunning
TuscanR is offline  
__________________
" Just because a press release has a dancing donkey on the top of it doesn't mean you've got to believe it "
Ben Samuelson TVR.
Quote
Old 3 Jan 2004, 11:30 (Ref:826385)   #14
krt917
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Fleet
Posts: 1,814
krt917 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkrt917 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Initial thoughts:

-Agree with flexible-flyer. The greats tend to be people who can pull strong performaces out of mediocre cars and/or work on the development or set-up of the car to make it better.
- Consistant speed. Barrichello's drive at Silverstone was great, but - so far - I don't think he quite qualifies as a great because the likes of Senna, Schumacher, Prost etc. were/are capable of that sort of perfromance on a more regular basis.

Of course, you get different types of great driver. Those that simply have a natural talent for driving quickly, such as Clark and Villeneuve, whilst others have worked hard behind the scenes, such as Hill (G) and Jack Brabham. The there are those wo combine the two; Stewart, Prost Schumacher, to name but three.

When choosing between the greats, I personally feel that they way a driver goes about trying to win is important, being sporting/fair. That's why I have always had problems putting Senna and Schumacher at the very top, though I accept that they are among the greatest ever.
krt917 is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Jan 2004, 16:47 (Ref:826603)   #15
neilap
Veteran
 
neilap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Jamaica
21212
Posts: 2,986
neilap should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A great driver is able to consistently perform at his best under difficult circumstances. If you win in the best car it does not make you the best driver it makes you the luckiest, or it means you have the best management team.

MS imo, is the only real great in F1 now. He is definately still one of the most skilled in F1. What impresses me about him is that he has the whole team around him. He ensures the team gives him what he needs to deliver the goods, then he delivers the goods. It may seem unfair but there has to be a reason that MS get prefference over RB.

When he does not have the best car he seems to perform even better. Where some drivers may overdrive he is able to run consistent laps and bring the car home.

Also, he has to be the luckiest man on the plannet.

Last edited by neilap; 3 Jan 2004 at 16:49.
neilap is offline  
__________________
Eventually we learn
Quote
Old 4 Jan 2004, 02:17 (Ref:827054)   #16
avsfan733
Veteran
 
avsfan733's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location:
Rochester
Posts: 1,618
avsfan733 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A better PR firm

Last edited by avsfan733; 4 Jan 2004 at 02:17.
avsfan733 is offline  
__________________
I refuse to let fact get in the way of my opinion
Quote
Old 4 Jan 2004, 04:37 (Ref:827110)   #17
BARrouette
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
out of this world
Posts: 380
BARrouette should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
His mojo.
BARrouette is offline  
__________________
Beep Beep!!!
IF you look in Your mirror it's allready too late , i just passed you...
Quote
Old 4 Jan 2004, 11:03 (Ref:827249)   #18
Mattracer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
Mattracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by avsfan733
A better PR firm
Some might say more than ever these days
Mattracer is offline  
__________________
Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine

Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who will be the next great F1 driver? Yoong Montoya Formula One 28 4 Jan 2004 15:54
What makes a good driver pairing? jhansen Formula One 15 31 Dec 2003 12:19
Shu is a great driver but....... J.McClane Formula One 25 4 Mar 2002 16:33
What makes a driver great? Damon Formula One 29 23 May 2001 11:05


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.