2010 Le Mans Intercontinental Cup

[Fogelhund]

So did Paul Ricard have "LeMans like" attendance, TV coverage, or TV viewership?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

WTF is it with the ALMS being brought in here? We weren't, nor are, talking about it! This is about the statement that the LMS is even less than it was! And it seems just when there is a potential environment that could produce interest in it, starting with the upgrade of the GT class!






L.P.

I've followed European sportscar racing for 20 years, believe me, there is no potential with the LMS, this is as good as it gets.

The P1 manufactuers have already made their feelings known, even GT2 manufactuers want a part of the LMIC action.

In time at least three rounds of the LMIC will be in Europe, the LMS is only 5/6 rounds in total!

This is a win, win situation for current LMS teams, and offers what the manufactuers and large teams want.

I mention the ALMS as it seems absolutely clear to me the general North American opposition to the LMIC is driven by self interest, namely manufactuers choosing the LMIC over the ALMS.

[joeb]

I thought there was going to be some stipulation that if you wanted to race in the LMIC then you had to race in X number of other races in other series. Is that still going to be the case? If it is, I wouldn't worry to much about manufacturers choosing LMIC over ALMS. Besides the ALMS has a healthy series with the Challenge classes alone

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by joeb

I thought there was going to be some stipulation that if you wanted to race in the LMIC then you had to race in X number of other races in other series. Is that still going to be the case?

I think they'll have to drop that rule once they move to a 6 or 7 race LMIC...

[cmk]

Given that those additional races will already be part of other series then that rule would still be in place in a de facto sense; however those additional races would be mandated rather than optional and likely limited to more major events.

It is problematic for the 'feeder' series though, that is for sure. This whole idea continues to leave me unsettled, and it seems that some of the manufacturers presently agree. I only hope that the moves taken to settle them have a similar effect on me.

[JAG]

For 2011 I could see a manufactuer like Audi taking in the following events.

Sebring (LMIC)
Paul Ricard (LMS)
Spa (LMIC)
Le Mans
Silverstone (LMIC)
TBA North America (ALMS)
PLM (LMIC)
TBA Asia (LMIC)
TBA Asia (LMIC)

[HORNDAWG]

Well it sounds like a good way to try and kill the ALMS! And possibly the LMS. You actually think that it (ALMS) can survive on 2 to 3 races a year? And when it is gone where the will the ILMC run, Europe? Then it can be called the LMS, right??




L.P.

[Lola T70]

Manufacturers want one thing, privateers another, usual problem.

Now they need to be able to spread budgets over a wider area and that means not in one market. So far, even without ILMC the manufacturers have not chosen LMS or ALMS in a complete schedule on their reduced budgets, so maybe they need ILMC to keep convincing boards to spend the money for Le Mans programmes which I think is in the interest of all.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Well it sounds like a good way to try and kill the ALMS! And possibly the LMS. You actually think that it (ALMS) can survive on 2 to 3 races a year? And when it is gone where the will the ILMC run, Europe? Then it can be called the LMS, right??




L.P.

The LMS and ALMS are guaranteed at least two ILMC rounds, plus one other to fulfill ACO reguirements., i.e Paul Ricard and Road America/Mid-Ohio/Mosport, whichever is the most suitable.

If popular enough, these races could eventually count as rounds of the ILMC.

For LMS and ALMS rounds that don't count towards the ILMC, they can continue as is, they should be more attractive to privateers, but still attract manufactuers customer cars in the form of the ORECA Peugeot, Fernandez Aston Martin etc.

I really don't see the point of Peugeot blitzing the field in Europe and Audi doing the same in North America, I'd prefare manufactuers to square upto each other half a dozen times a year at Le Mans and in the ILMC, leaving high quality privateers to battle it out in the LMS and ALMS.

[Lola T70]

Agreed

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by JAG

I really don't see the point of Peugeot blitzing the field in Europe and Audi doing the same in North America, I'd prefare manufactuers to square upto each other half a dozen times a year at Le Mans and in the ILMC, leaving high quality privateers to battle it out in the LMS and ALMS.

I agree here. We need the publicity of the big manufacturer battles, but we have to remember that without the privateers we'd be left with grid sizes barely making it into double figures. It is, however, extremely difficult to satisfy both. The LMIC is potentially a method of solving this.

ALMS still has roughly 90% privateers on its grids, its probably always been around that figure, so I'm guessing the concern expressed in this thread is mostly financial? I don't know quite how much money Audi has poured in over the years. Or does the lack of manufacturer presence have a massive effect on audience figures in the US?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

I agree here. We need the publicity of the big manufacturer battles, but we have to remember that without the privateers we'd be left with grid sizes barely making it into double figures. It is, however, extremely difficult to satisfy both. The LMIC is potentially a method of solving this.

ALMS still has roughly 90% privateers on its grids, its probably always been around that figure, so I'm guessing the concern expressed in this thread is mostly financial? I don't know quite how much money Audi has poured in over the years. Or does the lack of manufacturer presence have a massive effect on audience figures in the US?

Hmm, and just how many full privateer LMP teams are there in the ALMS?




L.P.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, and just how many full privateer LMP teams are there in the ALMS?

Are you including the FLM cars here? OK, numbers could be better, but the ALMS has survived a long time with low LMP entries ('07 and '08 aside), so I'm not too sure how much difference the LMIC will make? Thats why I wondered if it was financial, or to do with audience figures.

Yes, the LMS is lucky that it boasts large grids, but the teams come from many different countries - and so do the majority of the LMP builders right now. I think the ALMS does remarkably well, having only one country to draw from (lets remember it is a national championship, afterall) and without a locally-based LMP manufacturer for the privateers at the moment.

At a time when manufacturers are struggling for cash, the LMIC is placing Audi, Peugeot and Aston Martin at some ALMS races where they would otherwise not show at all in 2010.

As for the rest of the ALMS races, well, they have some of the best GT competition around, and the FLM cars are at least putting prototypes on the grid, catering for privateers for now. Isn't that better than nothing?

[CTD]

What ALMS should do is make a huge investment in Canada and South America (mostly Brazil and Argentina). If a interest in Sportscars could be made, hopefully new teams (maybe manufactures) could spring from these countries, as they are all strong economies, where money could be found.
If the races could be placed around the 2 (3) continents, a larger audiences could be established, which would attract more Sponsors, and woula, ALMS would be stronger than ever!
ALMS, AsiaLMS and LMS could then elect races which will count in LMIC, and Sportscar racing would be stronger than ever.

[AstonGeoff]

Originally Posted by JAG

The closest Europe has got to the LMIC model was 2008, that year manufactuer backing resulted in 60k spectators at Silvertone, a three fold increase over a regular LMS event at the venue.

Whether non LMIC events will matter is down to the organisers, the LMS has been able to thrive with little media or fan interest, so for LMS entrants there are only positives, the LMIC rounds should be highlights to rank alongside Le Mans.

The only reason there was a huge turnout at the Silverstone LMS race in 2008 was that Peugeot gave away 50K tickets! Then went on to give away the drivers champtionship, then the manufacturers championship, then the teams one too!

There are a lot of privateer teams that can't afford to do LMIC, but can get the budget for LMS, so the LMS will always have a reasonable turnout.
Presumably teams that are not signed up for the full LMS don't score points? As per the ALMS.

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, and just how many full privateer LMP teams are there in the ALMS?




L.P.

Not sure how this is this the fault of an championship that does not even start until September?

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

I think the ALMS does remarkably well, having only one country to draw from (lets remember it is a national championship, afterall)....

i may be taking this completely out of context and don't want to start who's better/who's best, but these statements give the impression that because we are only drawing from NorthAmerica and hold all the races in one country, that the ALMS is somewhat less appealing and sub-par in comparison to the "other" series.

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

As for the rest of the ALMS races, well, they have some of the best GT competition around, and the FLM cars are at least putting prototypes on the grid, catering for privateers for now. Isn't that better than nothing?

it's better than anything else we got over here currently.....the LMPC cars i see as "field fillers", but they will eventually provide some fantastic racing and do provide an excellent opportunity for privateers.
and (going off topic), the ALMS GT2 competition is unbelievably competitive, exciting and as diverse as a series as you can find.

i'm just ready for rich people and corporations to start spending money like there is no tomorrow and bring ALL racing back to a former prominence.

[The Real DMN]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

i may be taking this completely out of context and don't want to start who's better/who's best, but these statements give the impression that because we are only drawing from NorthAmerica and hold all the races in one country, that the ALMS is somewhat less appealing and sub-par in comparison to the "other" series.

Try grabbing the other end of the stick. Thats not how I read those comments.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Lola T70

Not sure how this is this the fault of an championship that does not even start until September?

Why dont you try following the conversation a little closer, if you are going to interject! I never said it was the ILMC's fault that there are so few. But that there is, and it could very well be very detrimental (if not fatal) to the series as a whole, trying to glom another out of the two existing ones! Especially while the economic times are so strained!






L.P.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by The Real DMN

Try grabbing the other end of the stick. Thats not how I read those comments.

i grab all portions of "the stick" and one can read comments however they feel in an open forum; that's what makes it great.

and i was wrong in my previous post as the ALMS has races in more than one country, making it an International series .

as CTD stated, it would be nice to see some further investment into Maple Leaf Country and South of the Border, but I'd rather not sacrifice too much from the current schedule. the sacrifice may be necessary, but how great would it be to have more races in Canada and add some in SA and keeping the current schedule? is that even logistically feasible?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

as CTD stated, it would be nice to see some further investment into Maple Leaf Country and South of the Border, but I'd rather not sacrifice too much from the current schedule. the sacrifice may be necessary, but how great would it be to have more races in Canada and add some in SA and keeping the current schedule? is that even logistically feasible?

It would be very tight, but 2 races in South America and 1 in Canada should be possible? (maybe with the lose of a single race in USA)

[JHamilton]

I don't think South America is an option... not financially feasable anyway. Canada should be given consideration however as the Canucks turn out in HUGE numbers at Mosport no matter what the field is like.

[HORNDAWG]

While ALMS race(s) in S. America would be nice, and the thought is admirable. The realities of the negative ROI without a major sponsor for the race(s) means it is not going to happen, unless circumstances change. But that is diverging away from the topic of the ILMC which is the subject of this thread.







L.P.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AstonGeoff

The only reason there was a huge turnout at the Silverstone LMS race in 2008 was that Peugeot gave away 50K tickets! Then went on to give away the drivers champtionship, then the manufacturers championship, then the teams one too!

Those ticket giveaways are part of the benefit of manufactuer entries, along with the extra PR they generate. The DTM has built up it's fanbase over many years through similar initiatives.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, and just how many full privateer LMP teams are there in the ALMS?




L.P.

The Long Beach P1/2 entry looks decent, if in 2011 a couple of those cars become season long entrants, Dyson are back to full strength with two cars, and at least one new team enters, that grid would suddenly look stronger than all but 2007/8.

All ifs and buts, but the challenge classes have shown there are teams out there looking to enter the ALMS, even in difficult economic times.