Unification Near?

[Cowboy]

Macdaddy, I have never really seen the hype that has gone into the Indy 500. I have been a Cart fan for a very long time and I do like the occasional oval { 2 or 3 a season would be fine } but the Indy 500 has always been a bit much for me. 5 hours of left turns has never appealed to me. I have always liked the street and road courses much more.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by macdaddy
But he's up to something. I've been pretty certain of this since around the time of The Launch, actually. Penske is a man of well-chosen words. And that's why the very fact that he submitted that article to the NYTimes in the first place strikes me as being a significant clue.

I really don't think that we've heard the last of this. Mutiny is in the air, so-to-speak. Mark my words. Whether or not anything comes of it, only time will tell.

I'm either forgetting or didn't know in the first place, could you fill me in on the details of the NY Times article?

I also agree whole heartedly that CART was better with the ovals.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Cowboy
Macdaddy, I have never really seen the hype that has gone into the Indy 500. I have been a Cart fan for a very long time and I do like the occasional oval { 2 or 3 a season would be fine } but the Indy 500 has always been a bit much for me. 5 hours of left turns has never appealed to me. I have always liked the street and road courses much more.

Indy is a 3 hour race (unless it rains), Cowboy....

and I can tell you that it is held in the BEST motorsports facility on the planet Earth....nothing comes close.....not even remotely close....it is total state of the art....

[macdaddy]

Excerpts from Roger Penske's NY Times article...

The Brickyard, My Backyard:
It's Time to Repair the Rift in Our Sport.

If you ask any driver from any racing series — a Formula One driver, or an Indy-car driver or, yes, even a Nascar driver — which race he or she would most like to win, I'd bet he or she would say the Indy 500. Once you win this race, it puts you in a special class. But it is like winning the World Series without the National League.

The I.R.L. and CART are still split. My goal, over the next couple of months, is to come up with a way to repair the split that led me away from Indianapolis for five years. I'd like to see one group, not two, racing Indy cars again. It would benefit not only Tony George, the president of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

You ride in the pace car with the winner after the race, and you know you've been in a special event. There has been a lot of evolution in this sport, but it's still the same racetrack, and the race still has the same prestige. But we don't see the big infield crowds at Indianapolis that we've seen over the years.

The trajectory of Indy-car racing is not down. It's not flat. The quality of the race teams has improved. There's support for the series within the automotive industry. The sponsorships are strong. In the future, we will need to find one sponsor who will be able to do for Indy-car racing what Nextel can do for stock car racing.

I think Tony George will be able to land a first-class sponsor for the I.R.L. Hopefully, that's on the horizon. If we have such a corporate sponsor for one series, with 35, 36, 37 cars available to compete regularly, I think it would lead to more competitive races and a better series over all than the two separate series we have now.

In each of the last two years, there have been reports that there might not be enough cars to fill the traditional 33-car starting grid. That's economics. The old days of $15,000 cars and having only two sets of wheels are long gone. You can't win this race with merely any car, just as you can't win the Kentucky Derby with merely any horse.

I do think you're going to see more teams migrating from CART over to the I.R.L. I think Buddy Rice winning the pole position this year for the car owner Bobby Rahal, who was a critic of Tony George before the split, was a positive step. It's still going to take some time. You can't have conflict without some fallout.

As strong as stock car racing has become, you couldn't have two major series competing against each other. Besides, Nascar didn't get where it is in four or five years. It took a long time. Some of the people who left after the I.R.L.-CART split are only migrating back now, like Rahal and Michael Andretti, who is now a car owner.

That's encouraging. But I'd like to see us take the next step. I think one series would benefit not only the sport, but also the businesses that surround the sport. I've used Indianapolis as a common thread in all my businesses. When I first went there as a car owner in 1969, I could see that the race could give us a brand identity.

I'd like to see all of the top Indy-car drivers here. To think that more than 400,000 people will be at the race, I don't know of a sporting event that can compare. This place fosters teamwork. The fellow who takes the car in the truck is as important as the driver of the car. If the car doesn't get here, the driver doesn't race.

I remember what happened in 1995 when we had two former Indy 500 champions, Emerson Fittipaldi and Al Unser Jr., fail to qualify for the race. We didn't go back until 2001, and Castroneves won two straight years. De Ferran won last year. So we have not lost an Indy 500 that we've actually competed in since 1992.

Going to the Indy 500 is like going to the Kentucky Derby. But I didn't know what I had been missing until I came back. Now is the time for everyone to come back.

[gert]

Originally posted by macdaddy

Excerpts from Roger Penske's NY Times article...

Shouldn't that be: some people who stayed after the split are now leaving...
?

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by gert

Shouldn't that be: some people who stayed after the split are now leaving...
? [/QUOTE]

No.

He was talking about it from an Indy 500 perspective.

[gert]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Shouldn't that be: some people who stayed after the split are now leaving...
?

No.

He was talking about it from an Indy 500 perspective.

Okay, I know the article is about Indy 500, but in this sentence he was talking about the two series, so that seemed ... well... strange to me that he put it that way.

[gttouring]

the captain is the greatest spin doctor

[Dov]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
Indy is a 3 hour race (unless it rains), Cowboy....

and I can tell you that it is held in the BEST motorsports facility on the planet Earth....nothing comes close.....not even remotely close....it is total state of the art....

I like oval racing, but I would take Spa Francorchamps, Suzuka and Road America over Indy any day of the week!

[Snrub]

Hmmm, that's an interesting article. Obviously it doesn't contain any new info, but it says something about Penske.

Why doesn't it say "Some of the people who left after the I.R.L.-CART split are only migrating back now like Team Penske." He makes it sound like he was always Indy's top supporter. Later he does admit that he wasn't at Indy, but doesn't say why.

"...Bobby Rahal, who was a critic of Tony George before the split, was a positive step." Was it a positive step when Ganassi showed up and won Indy (while still in CART) or when Penske came back (while still in CART) and won?

"...Ask a Formula One driver, or an Indy-car driver or, yes, even a Nascar driver — which race he or she would most like to win, I'd bet he or she would say the Indy 500." MS has said that Indy would be a step down for him...

I can see why there's concern over Penske, I take what he said there as more of a threat than a positive step.

[JohnSSC]

I think there will always be disagreement over the "ideal" schedule - obviously every fan has a preference: some for street and/or road course, some for the bullring ovals and others for Indy/ Superspeedways. Whatever happens, a unified series will be more diverse than either of the current series as one has only one oval and the other no road courses at this time.

I agree Roger may not be in a position to start his own series, but his ability to get things done makes the threat of starting something a possibility that TG and the Amigos must consider.

[Kicking-back]

Agreed.

You have two polarised series just now.

It needs someone with vision to bang some heads together and make IndyCar racing great again.

While we fans watch all the races, the general public are not interested in either series to any great degree.

United we stand - divided we fall.

[pilgrim]

Originally posted by Ac.
Silent talk had Mario Andretti and Roger Penske sitting down in the Penske Motorhome during the rain delay with both very disappointed in what the Indy 500 has become (lack of fan and media interest).
Some type of agreement between the two has Penske and Andretti sitting down for some serious discussions between them and coming up with a plan to unify the two series in the next few months. Penske will use his muscle on George, and Mario the respect he has around the Champcar series....

So far I have not seen any indication one way or another that Mario is involved in this latest reunification brouhaha.

A *lot* of folks, myself included, would like to see one series, but the racing has been great in both series recently. No question. So I'm just going to enjoy the individual events until they get it together or one of the series folds (AGAIN)....If OWRS is continuing to have problems then there will be all kinds of trailer talk as teams try to figure out whether to run in IRL, do something else or pack it in.

[TedN]

Autoweek Article

Ted

[Kicking-back]

Lets hope that comes to fruition.

End the pettiness.

It's the only way forward.

[gttouring]

Penske opposed the orginal split from USAC, but he was the biggest force in CART's success, now he wants it back together...really PENSKE and Toyota and all of us will only benefit- penske is about making money and legend, not so much egomania like George...lsiten to the man for crying out loud

[Ac.]

<quote>As fans, let us all hope that as ambassador of open-wheel racing Good Will, Penske can convince Tony George to listen and work toward a common goal.</quote>

That says it all right there. This article makes it sound like Penske is working on something that would truly be fair. I have no doubt that the Champ Car troika would consider such a move, but it's the wild card of TG that I have no confidence in.

[Dov]

I want this to work too, but if you guys think that Penske is doing this for open wheel racing fans and not himself, then your way off base! The big question is, "what's in this deal for Roger Penske" ???

[Kicking-back]

What's in it for Penske is that he'd have a team in a potentially good and popular series, rather than one of two series which fewer people are interested in all the time.

Without a REunification, Champ Car and Indy Car will die.

[Dov]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
What's in it for Penske is that he'd have a team in a potentially good and popular series, rather than one of two series which fewer people are interested in all the time.

Without a REunification, Champ Car and Indy Car will die.

I think there's more too it then that K-b and ChampCar fans deserve answers & an apology from Penske among others!!

[Mags]

Originally posted by Dov
I want this to work too, but if you guys think that Penske is doing this for open wheel racing fans and not himself, then your way off base! The big question is, "what's in this deal for Roger Penske" ???

Here, Here Dov!!

This man make NO move unless it benifits HIM. There is nothing on the planet I want more than to see our series back together, but it isn't going to happen unless some miracle occures, Tony G steps down and sells Indy. I don't see it happening. The big problem is no one can seem to get the point that there is money and profit for ALL if they could only put down thier darn EGOS for 10 minutes. But they can't, because they are all former drivers. As a fan and media, it's frustrating a all heck, let me tell you. I'm am so sick of this. Truly, truly sick of it.

[JohnSSC]

Ok. We have a potential breakthrough, and already we have demands for apologies and assorted rash generalizations.

First, it would be unreasonable to expect that Penske or any owner in either Series would do something that would NOT benefit them. So to cast aspersions on the end result simply because Penske might have some long term goals for his business is just plain unrealistic. No owner will make money or be able to field a team if both Series are run so far into the ground that no one cares to spend sponsor $$ there any longer.

Second, the fact that Penske is meeting with OWRS ownership tells you immediately that TG is at least aware of it, if not supportive. That would not exactly make him a "wild card."

Third, let's check the facts: not all of the owners are former drivers. Are there egos involved? Yes. But when I took journalism I was taught that if you could not prove a statement you should not use it. There are owners who were drivers (or in Vasser's case, are) and a number who never were drivers.

Fourth, see point #1. Again, everyone is in this to further his/her own agenda. The interview of Dave Despain in "Grassroots Motorsports" this month was dead on: Open wheel owners, particularly CART were way more concerned with making off with the pie for themselves rather than trying to figure out how to make the pie bigger, a la NASCAR (no pun intended).

Fifth, I think we as fans need to check some of our expectations at the door and instead of holding our breath for some owner to apologize for something that we think they did wrong we ought to get behind the movement to unite.

Whatever the reasons, whatever the motivations and whoever benefits financially, a proper merger is only going to make for better, more exciting racing for us to watch and talk about.

I for one can't wait.

[klb]

Well, they (OWRS/IRL) better do something. OW racing in the US is pathetic at the moment. Reconcile differences or die.

[Mags]

Originally posted by klb
Well, they (OWRS/IRL) better do something. OW racing in the US is pathetic at the moment. Reconcile differences or die.

Start planning the wake.

TG started this all by taking his ball and going home. Why anyone questions us despising him, I do not understand. And now it took what, 10 years for the other half to implode?

You can not reason with a man that refuses to admit what he did was wrong.

Forget Tony George. And enjoy the few races Champ Car have left.

[marcus]

I think we should keep all the unification stuff to one thread , that way everything is packaged in a nice neat bundle and there is no confusion.

Im gonna merge the threads