Moss: Jenson Won't Be Champ in 2005.

luke · 31 Dec 2004, 12:38 (Ref:1190490)

link

Stirling Moss has written off Jenson Button’s hopes of becoming F1 champion in 2005.

The British racing legend believes Button has what it takes to win the title in the future, but is sceptical that BAR can provide him with a car to consistently challenge the Ferraris.

He told Autosport magazine: "Jenson has got a good following because he is English and he is doing very well - and I think he is our only real hope of getting the world championship in the near future.

"But I don't think he will do it yet.

"I think he could, in a period of time, be good enough to do it - and he is not far off now.

"But he has got to at least have something as good as Michael Schumacher's car to be able to do it - and we cannot assume BAR can do that yet."

Moss’s views echo those of ITV-F1 commentator Martin Brundle, who said earlier this month that he wasn’t totally convinced by Button.

He said: "Sometimes you just wonder if the absolute total raw pace is there, although it would be easy to take a pot-shot at that theory after 2004.”

**Adam43** · 31 Dec 2004, 12:53 (Ref:1190495)

That is odd. Autosport in the last few days have taken the same interview with Moss and the one with Brundle and done a more Button can be champ slant on it.
Moss: Button "could be" champ
Brundle: Brundle praises Button

Obviously one headline can't sum up the context that came through in both interviews. Well certainly not in ITV's case.

To be fair, both have assessed him well and they are only opinions.

I tend to agree with most things in those articles. He has potential, but hasn't quite achieved it yet (he hasn't had a race where he has driven 2s a lap faster than someone else to gain a win, he has only been on the receiving end - down to car, yes, but how much?). Also there are several drivers you could say that about. Of people in F1 who are as good if not better I'd list (conservatively) Schumacher, Raikkonen, Montoya, Alonso, Fisichella, Barichello (in no order and without thinking too hard). So statistically it is unlikely Button will win many titles. It will all depend on how it pans out, it will be the future he will be judged on, nit what has happened up till now.

ralf fan · 31 Dec 2004, 12:57 (Ref:1190498)

I think what Stirling meant is.. "he has the potential but he needs a car that is fast enough to challenge Ferrari" which is true.
and in luke's post i think Brundle is talking about the Bar cars not Jenson.

Marbot · 31 Dec 2004, 13:12 (Ref:1190515)

I think it's down to the car,Jenson himself said TGF is beatable and i believe him,Jenson was particularly impressed by the way TGFs Ferrari passed him on the pit straight at Monza.

luke · 31 Dec 2004, 13:17 (Ref:1190518)

I belive he can be champion, hence my signature. As long as the BAR is fast enough to win, and is consistent, and is friends with the finish line I don't doubt him.

Kicking-back · 31 Dec 2004, 14:19 (Ref:1190562)

Moss says Jenson needs a better car than the BAR was in 2004 - which is true.

People will always find a way to criticise someone or other - but Sir Stirling is accurate.

BootsOntheSide · 31 Dec 2004, 14:21 (Ref:1190564)

"Friends with the finish line"? That expression's so cringe-worthy I doubt James Allen would use it.

I'm not sure he can win the title in 2005, but neither Moss nor Brundle are writing him off in the long-term. Stirling's comments certainly seem more focused on the car than Jenson. The title of the thread defintiely needs to be changed to emphasise the 'in 2005' aspect.

luke · 31 Dec 2004, 14:25 (Ref:1190566)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

"Friends with the finish line"? That expression's so cringe-worthy I doubt James Allen would use it.

Thanks.

Quote:

The title of the thread defintiely needs to be changed to emphasise the 'in 2005' aspect

Not at all.

Kirk · 31 Dec 2004, 16:58 (Ref:1190630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Stirling's comments certainly seem more focused on the car than Jenson.

Which speaks volumes in itself. In fact, imo, you can add 4 or 5 other drivers to the list of drivers who COULD win the WDC if given the car to do so. Unfortunately the driver was a small fraction of the winning formula in 2004. 2005 should be better in that regard, but not much (and another topic).
My assessment of JB is still the same. I don't think it is his "raw speed" that is in question but his willingness and ability to race in traffic.

BootsOntheSide · 31 Dec 2004, 17:15 (Ref:1190641)

True enough Kirk, although I think Michael still was the strongest overall performer in 2004, and would win the title in an equal car (especially if he had the Brawn/Byrne/Todt et al team around him, and the chance to have a conscious effect on devleopment and setup strategies).

I'll repeat myself, Stirling doesn't seem to feel that Button lacks the talent or application to be world champion, but doesn't feel that he's reached that level yet, and would need to be ahead of Michael on form to win it in 2005.

Testure · 31 Dec 2004, 17:18 (Ref:1190642)

Brundle's comments can be read here: http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=72697 He also makes a couple of comments about Kimi and Fernando. I agree with his thoughts that Jenson has always seemed to be a ... level-headed/consistent type. Not necessarily the naturally blisteringly fast type that Juan-Pablo/Fernando/Kimi/Michael often seem to be. He's getting better though

neilap · 31 Dec 2004, 22:40 (Ref:1190788)

I think some people mix up flambouyant with fast. I dont think JPM is particularly fast. IMO he is about as fast as RS BUT his has the hugest attatchments when in a battle. IMO JB seems slower because he is so smooth when he races.

The BAR 006 was a very fast car and did well on all the tracks this season. However, it was not at the level of the Ferrari. Next year promises to be a bit more exciting. After all things have been shaken up. Maybe it will take away some of MS's advantage.

jondownunder · 31 Dec 2004, 23:36 (Ref:1190812)

I seem to remember around 1990 Stirling Moss saying Nigel Mansell would never be champion...

Fireblade · 1 Jan 2005, 00:58 (Ref:1190834)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jondownunder

I seem to remember around 1990 Stirling Moss saying Nigel Mansell would never be champion...

Might be a good omen then?

Kicking-back · 1 Jan 2005, 02:53 (Ref:1190861)

But Stirling hasn't said Jenson will never be champion!

**Aysedasi** · 1 Jan 2005, 10:11 (Ref:1190933)

I just hope Stirling is wrong....

I just want to see someone else win the bloody thing.....

Hazza · 1 Jan 2005, 10:24 (Ref:1190935)

And a former team owner hasn't said that Jenson will never win a Gp aslong as there is a hole in his ass!

luke · 19 Jan 2005, 17:08 (Ref:1204873)

From itv.com/f1

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31914

"John Surtees reckons BAR should have demoted Jenson Button to test driver following his attempted defection to Williams.

Former world champion Surtees believes Button is mighty lucky to have emerged from the controversial episode unscathed.

He thinks BAR should have promoted Anthony Davidson into Button’s place as punishment."

In fact, it looks like I will have to get F1 Racing then.

As for the Button saga well, I'am a fan, but I wish he was at Williams now, then Anthony could step up, he deserves a ride.

Glen · 19 Jan 2005, 17:13 (Ref:1204886)

Good job Surtees isn't running a big team! What a great idea that would have been - **** off your number one driver by renaging on a contract and cheating him out of a couple of million dollars of points money, then accuse Jenson of looking for contract loopholes (pot calling kettle black etc), then throw all your effort into keeping that driver because you recognise that he is a massive talent and has scored two thirds of the team's points, then dump him into testing in a fit of pique. Yea - great idea that would have been! What a berk.

I'd like Ant to get his chance as well, but not because BAR/Honda are being stupid.

BootsOntheSide · 19 Jan 2005, 17:22 (Ref:1204898)

I'm pretty sure Surtees only had one set of facts there, and wasn't aware of what really went on regarding bonuses, let alone of the minutae of the contract. Needless to say,he's completely wrong - whereas Moss always comes across as having compassion, integrity and thoughtfulness, Surtees makes himself look like a typical "if a war came along I'd be on the front line with 'em, can't stand crime either, them hooligans on heroin"-type lowest-common-denominator guy who speaks before he thinks.

Heebeegeetee · 19 Jan 2005, 18:20 (Ref:1204927)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Good job Surtees isn't running a big team! What a great idea that would have been - **** off your number one driver by renaging on a contract and cheating him out of a couple of million dollars of points money, then accuse Jenson of looking for contract loopholes (pot calling kettle black etc), then throw all your effort into keeping that driver because you recognise that he is a massive talent and has scored two thirds of the team's points, then dump him into testing in a fit of pique. Yea - great idea that would have been! What a berk.

I'd like Ant to get his chance as well, but not because BAR/Honda are being stupid.

He's a very, very smart man, is John Surtees, very astute indeed. His life has been very succesful.

I'd certainly listen to what he has to say.

Red · 19 Jan 2005, 18:31 (Ref:1204930)

Me too. Also to what Moss has to say as well. However all this looks to me like ITV (

) having a bored off season.

maximus · 19 Jan 2005, 18:51 (Ref:1204940)

Yes but just because Surtees is experienced and smart, doesn't make what he said sensible or the right thing.

Inigo Montoya · 19 Jan 2005, 19:18 (Ref:1204959)

Wanna know my opinion? (didn't think so

) Jenson is a great driver, but not WDC material. As I said in another thread, he will go to Williams, and he won't impress. Just like Beckham when he went to Real Madrid. A pretty boy with some talent, but not ready to jostle with the big boys.

Kicking-back · 19 Jan 2005, 19:20 (Ref:1204960)

I think it's fashionable to knock Jenson - but I think he quite clearly can be world champion

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