Bruno Injured / Replaced by Servia

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Go back to the early 90s when there was Unser Jr, Mears, both Andrettis, Sulliven and Rahal. There's a name recognition factor. Even for ignorant new watchers fans, they're going to pick early favorites based on certain points of interest. Hearing names they may have heard of or achievements will do this. All of those guys had that. It's why today they mention things like past champions of CC and other series. I'm not saying that level is required again, but it provides an example of the direction things need to go.

I agree, and there's another factor that I think has been overlooked as well, one that is a major difference from the great years of the 80's and early 90's (and to some extent the late 90's) - driver stability. You used to have the same names fight for the victories and the series championship year in, year out, but these days the driver rotation is much higher.

Another rather major difference is that many of the drivers in Champ Car today don't see it as a place to settle down, but rather as a "waiting station" until they get a chance to do something else (usually another shot at Formula 1).

True, for the hardcore fans neither issue might be much of a "problem", but for the more casual fans it just might be.

[Rime]

New kid on the block?

Verstappen back to the US
Former Grand Prix driver Jos Verstappen will be back in the United States this week for another Champ Car test with Keith Wiggins's HVM team, which currently runs Denmark's Ronnie Bremer and Bjorn Wirdheim. It is not immediately obvious why there might be a vacancy at HWM but with Newman Haas racing ostensibly looking for a driver to replace the injured Bruno Junqueira, it is possible that Bremer or Wirdheim might be moving on, although Oriol Servia did a decent job as stand-in for Junqueira at Milwaukee, finishing third.

Source: GrandPrix.com

[Rime]

Denied by Verstappen and removed from Grandprix.com....

[BootsOntheSide]

Rustyfan has the best summary of the situation. Remember all those exciting new drivers and teams which filled the grid for St. Pete's in 2003? Where are they all now? Only Bourdais, RHR, Conquest and Rocketsports remain - it's a pure bit of luck that the guyb who bought Craig Pollock out has a last name beginning with P. I know the issue is primarily an economic one, but it's a big reason why ChampCar struggles for market appeal. Many top NASCAR drive/team/chassis/sponsor/# packages have been intact for a decade or more, and they become brands in their own right.

[Russfeld]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Lance Armstrong proved that you only need one winning participant for a nation to follow you, not a whole field of them. Rebuild Atlantics, in relation to the US market get the best US drivers, only has to be a couple who can race Bourdais etc and beat him consistently, and the American market will have it's Champion. And more importantly, have a farm system to begin producing the quality generation after generation. The best quality is priority one.

You need a heavy marketing push, cancer, and to win a lot.

[Liz]

Go back to the early 90s when there was Unser Jr, Mears, both Andrettis, Sulliven and Rahal. There's a name recognition factor. Even for ignorant new watchers fans, they're going to pick early favorites based on certain points of interest. Hearing names they may have heard of or achievements will do this.

A.J. Foyt IV is probably available. Everybody knows his name. You could probably get him to throw a few laptops around and eat a lot of sandwiches, too, if you paid him for it.

Most of the people who are well known in racing today, except for those named "Little" or "Junior", were unknown before they became known -- and they became known by what they did, not by what was on their birth certificates. People want to see good, competitive racing with a down-to-the-wire finish for the championship. I don't really think that most people care, for example that TGF is German, and I don't hear a lot of people crying that he ought to be fired and two Americans hired in his place. It's nice to have a national hero in a racing series (for example, Carlos Sainz) but first he (or she) ought to be required to do something that people want to watch, before being elevated to the top step solely because of nationality, cuteness or family name.

[macdaddy]

Valid arguments here, but...
The Canadian races wouldn't be nearly as successful as they are were it not for the Canadian drivers.

[N I Tram]

The way some people here talk about Tony George, don't be surprised if Danica mysteriously falls ill soon, and then recovers just in time to win next year's race? How far would he go for publicicty? Some would say that far.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by Muzza

Just one correction: the ALMS is not (at least not yet) a profitable series.

Originally Posted by The Snout

If that is indeed the case Muzza then I stand corrected. However I've been led to believe via guys like Brian W Keske who have a good knowledge of ALMS that the series is in the black. And they had be reaching better ratings than CCWS consistently, though this year I believe they didn't do too well to begin with.

Originally Posted by Liz

The ALMS is in the black and has been since the end of last year, from what I have heard and seen. Dr. Panoz has been emphatic about the people who spread the rumours that not only are they in the red, but that they are bankrupt and he's looking for someone to buy the series -- he says that their 'speculations' are a combination of wishful thinking and .

Hello Folks,


Sorry for hijacking this thread for a second. My statement about the financial situation of the ALMS is the result of a conversation I (and several other witnesses, some six or seven) had with Don Panoz himself in Elkhart Lake last season. A Québecoise journalist (I am sorry but I don't know her name) asked the question and Panoz was surprisingly lengthy, candid and explanatory in his answer, saying that the ALMS was not yet profitable, that such situation was expected and had been considered in the series' business plan, etc. Panoz would not confirm when it would break even, but he left understood that it would be around 2005. Maybe this last sentence is the one that reached Liz.

Having said that, for the sake of correctness I must disclose that I committed an inference in my rationale to conclude that the ALMS is not yet profitable. Panoz spoke what he did when the series was reaching larger audiences (both on-track and via television - check the numbers for the latter, they have fallen; I don't have the first but several members of this forum have written about the fact that ALMS 2004 and 2005 races have not been as well attended as in 2002 and 2003). Also, it is undeniable that the breadth of the entries used to be much richer - in the various meanings of this word - a few years back than what it is now.

Therefore I developed my conclusion following the thought "well, if it was not profitable then, now that the series has been a bit subdued it should continue to be unprofitable by now." Maybe somehow it is, but the rationale above seems logical to me - even though what is logical is not necessarily correct.

Cheers,


Muzza

[Snrub]

Kirby on Seriva/NH: By the end of the day it appeared that Servia's steady, fast, heads-up driving had earned him Junqueira's seat for the rest of the season. Haas left a message for Servia to call him at home the following morning and when I last saw him outside victory circle, Carl seemed to be deciding to stay with Servia

"He did a great job," Haas said about Servia. "We're very impressed with him. We'll make a decision in the next few days."
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...le.asp?ID=9091

[Tim Northcutt]

I don't know about other specific venues and attendance for the ALMS during the course of their season, but I follow the Series very closely....

Sebring has set a record for attendance over the past two years, and had about 180,000 people attended this year...the crowd looked noticeably larger this year....

Mid-Ohio looked definitely larger this year than in 2004, my guestimate is by 10,000 or more people...and it drew 50,000 in 2004.

Petit le Mans at Road Atlanta last autumn drew more than 65,000 people, and I recall mentions that the crowd was up there as well...

Mosport had about 70,000 people in attendance, and long-time race fans of events at that facility also reported that the crowd was larger last year than inprevious ALMS visits...

Last July was the first race at Lime Rock...I recall numbers in the range of 30,000 for that first-time event, but those who attended and have been to other racing series events there said that the crowd was the largest they had seen compared to other events they have gone to there....and that the crowd reaction to the weekend festivities and the action on the track was very positive...

Yes...car counts have been down, but there is a transition in the ruleset for that Series, and next year, a number of builders, both manufacturers and independent builders, are expected to introduce new specs cars for competition....

Fan interest has been strong from what I have seen and read thus far....and although I do not know their bottom line financially, the ALMS will continue to grow and prosper, IMO....

For the fans, it is the most fan-friendly series I have ever attended and the ticket value gives you by far the "most bang for the buck" of any major racing Series....

For $80, I watched four days of racing from sun-up to sundown at Sebring, plus night practice Thursday evening, and it gave me full Paddock access all four days....wellthis year I saw 3 and 1/2 days of racing...it poured on Thursday (4 inches of rain!) and afternoon sessions were cancelled....but night practice did happen after the rain stopped...


At Mid-Ohio, a $60 ticket gave me the same, plus a Grid-Walk before the big event where the fans could walk amonst the teams and drivers on the race grid itself on the track....

You make some interesting points, and I don't doubt anything you've written here, or had overheard last year at Elkhart Lake, Muzza...

But the future, IMO, looks very bright for this Series to grow in both competitors and in fans....

Go to just one ALMS race, and you will want to go back...I would virtually guarantee it...

[macdaddy]

I'm quite interested in all of this, but we must admit that we've strayed WAY off-topic now...

[Snrub]

Here's something I don't think anyone has considered, did Dale Coyne like Servia going to NH for Milwaukee? It sounds like he may not have. http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...TS01/506050417

What is known is that if Servia doesn't stick with Newman/Haas, he isn't likely to be welcomed back by Coyne, who ran just one car in Saturday's race.

Coyne was particularly miffed that he didn't find out about Servia's departure until Wednesday afternoon, and then only from another driver calling to inquire about taking over Servia's car.

"I want a driver who is going to be loyal to the team now and in the future," said Coyne, who had a handshake agreement but no contract with Servia since they hooked up last year. "If it had been for the rest of the season, that's one thing, but to do it for one race doesn't make a lot of sense to me."

Wild stuff. It sounds like Coyne is willing to give up the best possible driver for his seat for someone who will finish 17-18th. On the other hand, I can understand why he's upset. I can't think of anyone since Jackie Stewart and Ken Tyrell that have had a handshake contract. It only works with two people of the utmost integrity. Why wouldn't Servia have talked to Coyne first? Even if he'd said, that he wanted it to come from him that he was going to be driving for NH for Milwaukee. Coyne was called by a prospective driver, I wonder who that was? Could Valiente get the seat?

Interesting comment from Servia: "If for whatever reason this turns out to be my last race in Champ Car," he said, "it (was) in a Newman/Haas car."

[Muzza]

M'daddy, I promise these are my last comments about ALMS...

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

You make some interesting points, and I don't doubt anything you've written here, or had overheard last year at Elkhart Lake, Muzza...

But the future, IMO, looks very bright for this Series to grow in both competitors and in fans....

Go to just one ALMS race, and you will want to go back...I would virtually guarantee it...

Just three things, Tim:

1.) I did not overheard - I talked to Panoz about it.

2.) Absolutely! The ALMS is my favourite series in the whole world! I am rooting for it and for its future.

3.) I have been to nine ALMS races (in five different tracks) in the last three years alone... Am I a fan of it or what?

My comments are by no means derogatory about ALMS, and did not even expressed concern about its future (I will only say that money to run it is not a problem and will not be - at least for the foreseeable future. Source is an ALMS owner and sometimes driver whose name I cannot disclose).

Cheers,

Muzza

(sorry, edited by Muzza: I have actually been to nine ALMS races in the last three years, and not ten as I had written)

[macdaddy]

Replying to Snrub:

I knew about Coyne's thoughts regarding the matter, but thanks for those links anyway. Servia's quote is quite interesting.

By-the-way, remember that Gentilozzi and Tagliani had a "handshake-contract", so you can add that one to your list.

Replying to Muzza:

Always nice to "hear" your voice. Hope all is well with you.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Sebring had about 180,000
Mid-Ohio 60,000
Road Atlanta >65,000
Mosport 70,000

Those are some wild figures, are they weekend or race day? Regardless I'm shocked. I don't tend to pay attention to ALMS because it's so dull. If Champ Car went to any of those tracks it couldn't muster those numbers, even Mosport which is fairly close to the Toronto CC race.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

Replying to Snrub:
By-the-way, remember that Gentilozzi and Tagliani had a "handshake-contract", so you can add that one to your list.

I'm not sure that shaking hands and burning the relationship before a single race counts.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Those are some wild figures, are they weekend or race day? Regardless I'm shocked. I don't tend to pay attention to ALMS because it's so dull. If Champ Car went to any of those tracks it couldn't muster those numbers, even Mosport which is fairly close to the Toronto CC race.

It is my understanding that it is race day attendance, not total weekend....

I can tell you that I know how to estimate crowds based on my experiences with our summer concert series in our outdoor aphitheater...I can usually hit within 500 people based on area size and density of the crowd...

In 2004, I figured there were about 50,000 at Mid-Ohio on Race Day, based on the crowds I say on various spectator mounds in corners,, etc., and the crowd density...at various locations in and around the circuit...

When ALMS released figures for that race, the crowd number was 50,000 people....

Thee were more there this year than last....about 20% more by my guestimate...thus I believe that when figures are released, it will be in the neighborhood of 60,000 people...

Keep in mind that you have some that just buy a race day ticket, but most ALMS fans buy a Super Ticket for the weekend.....it is very rare for someone to buy a single day ticket only.....

but those counts, the way I understand it, are race day counts.

[macdaddy]

This thread is very close to being closed.

[macdaddy]

In fact, this thread is closed.

I'll start another.