Surfers

[norman-normal]

Speed is history

[mac]

Was going to post something mean to RR - but thought I better play nice.

[Robert Ryan]

D.R.T., as far as ratings for '06 goes in the U.S., Toronto was the highest at 0.9. Six of the races on SPEED, including the last five, were 0.1s.

Thanks Indycool...the ratings were as I said Abysmal.

Read closer, Robert. I said Open Wheel

Read what I underlined...Oval racing is where it is at in the US, racing a Sedan that is. Yes I know the IRL has poor oval ratings but Champcars street courses and roadracourses are worse.

No doubt, but when we combine Race Director and International covergae aswell, that more than satisfies the Qld Govs objectives.

D.R.T. where are your statistics?

Exactly. But you were adament that there would be no A1 at EC under any circumstances

If they do make it this far..they were very adamant under the Prince of not racing at EC.

Inadequate coverage of each event


Please elaborate

Champ Car is at a disadvantage. Road and Street races are spread out in such a manner that makes it difficult to cover. Then the ratings are not sufficient for someone to invest in beter coverage. I dont ever remember Champ Car fans being happy with TV coverage. They complained about ABC/ESPN, Then SPEED, and on and on.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Thanks Indycool...the ratings were as I said Abysmal.

Very perceptive there. Point is we are talking International exposure versus US alone.

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Read what I underlined...Oval racing is where it is at in the US, racing a Sedan that is. Yes I know the IRL has poor oval ratings but Champcars street courses and roadracourses are worse.

Tv ratings for both are poor. Track attendance at street and road courses (outside of Indy 500) are far superior than oval events. The reason being for no ovals in 2007.

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

If they do make it this far..they were very adamant under the Prince of not racing at EC.

Feet hurting from all that back tracking, Robert.

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

They complained about ABC/ESPN, Then SPEED, and on and on.[/B]

Always wanting more, I dont see a problem there.

That said apart from potential audience, I didnt see a problem with speed.

ABC/ESPN will solve that. This would be pleasing for Indy organisers.

[Robert Ryan]

Very perceptive there. Point is we are talking International exposure versus US alone

It is a US series, it requires good ratings in the US, to get sponsorship. By the way talking about ratings, where is your Race Director Statisics for the International viewers?

[Tv ratings for both are poor. Track attendance at street and road courses (outside of Indy 500) are far superior than oval events. The reason being for no ovals in 2007.

But Abysmal TV ratings, what is needed for sponsorship.

Always wanting more, I dont see a problem there.

That said apart from potential audience, I didnt see a problem with speed.

ABC/ESPN will solve that. This would be pleasing for Indy organisers.

Well you hope it has an impact, it did not as CART when the series was somewhat healthier.

[cptkablamo]

Did anyone ever consider print media and the Internet (outside race director)...I mean, the GC Bulliten sent 9 photo and 8 journo to the GC race. Surely the media sent to races in the States by local papers must compare. This combined with the countless motorsport sites on the net also create a rather handsome media experience for the Qld Gmt and CCWS to acheive some handy media points...

[Robert Ryan]

I mean, the GC Bulliten sent 9 photo and 8 journo to the GC race. Surely the media sent to races in the States by local papers must compare

If it is not carried by some US Media outlet it does not exist. That sad fact of life hits you travelling around the US.

[indycool]

I can answer that about print media in the U.S. Other than a few events (such as races, golf, tennis, etc.) there are scant few that follow the tour. In team sports, a paper in Philadelphia will assign a writer to cover the Phillies home and away.

For races, coverage is largely regional for open-wheel. In towns which have a race in a current open-wheel series, a paper might cover two or three races, but that's about it. NASCAR has a much larger print media following as newspapers in the south still send writers for the whole tour.

But are the guys from the LA papers going to Portland? Nope. If they print anything at all, it's a few paragraphs off the wire. Google one sometime.

The one racing event that's different is the "500."

[enemy-ace]

Originally Posted by indycool

The one racing event that's different is the "500."

And unfortunately for OW in North America even that coverage is fading.

[indycool]

Doesn't seem to be, e-a. Read the Toronto Star and Sun online from down here every year. They send their guys.

[JohnSSC]

There are some good points here. Personally, I don't recall ever seeing any numbers for Race Director here or anywhere. I would suspect that the number of people using it would be small. Hard-core fans maybe, would have an interest in watching the race at thier PC but the casual fan (the people who would be needed to make enough households to get into the 1.0 range or better) just won't be bothered.

Some thoughts:

1) Whatever network was used last year, the coverage looked more like an infomercial than coverage of a sporting event - particularly with Derek Daly's continual exclamations of just how exciting this all was.
2) Being on ESPN in and of itself will not equal more viewers. The product and presentation of same will have to do that.
3) Advertisers want to see ratings and they will want to see them Here in the US - this is where the series is based and this is where the advertising $$ will have to come from. An advertiser here (Say Target for example) really doesn't care about the ratings in Sydney or Auckland (no offense).
4) I know my local paper, The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, does have a motorsports writer. He doesn't even go to Indy let alone Cleveland or San Jose or Edmonton. He doesn't do NASCAR either! Most papers here in the hinterlands don't have the budget for it nor do the readers demand it. Interest is so low that Open Wheel events in general show up in a sort of "notebook" format. NASCAR coverage is generally a straight AP feed.

So to sum it up, the battle for ratings is not the battle for the fanatics in either Series (and I do not mean this as a negative as the word "fan" is derived from "fanatic") - the battle is for the person who may be sitting around channel surfing who has an interest in racing. I am not sure that simply being on ESPN or Versus or Whatever is going to make a huge difference. The product needs "buzz" to generate enough interest for someone to tune in as we used to say. A new chassis, a hard-hitting power point presentation of a business model or "red tires" is not going to do that for the target audience.

[luke]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

There are some good points here. Personally, I don't recall ever seeing any numbers for Race Director here or anywhere. I would suspect that the number of people using it would be small. Hard-core fans maybe, would have an interest in watching the race at thier PC but the casual fan (the people who would be needed to make enough households to get into the 1.0 range or better) just won't be bothered.

They got 140,000 people log in and watch a race last year I remember. Was world wide. The official website said this in an article. Not small, pretty much the same as the amount of people that watched it on Speed. And to say its just hardcore fans that have race director is just wrong. The large majourity of Champ Car fans have a Race Director acount, be it big fans down to casual fans who enjoy open wheel racing.

[norman-normal]

Indy 500 is a shadow of what it use to be: slapped together cars with old drivers who retired years ago; pumped up like one of those balloons in a Thanksgiving Day parade.

[indycool]

norman, this thread isn't about the Indianapolis 500.

Luke, I question whether a "softcore fan" would pay for Race Director....any more than a "softcore fan" would pay for premium cable channels or pay-per-view on events. That's essentially what Race Director is.

[Robert Ryan]

[Luke, I question whether a "softcore fan" would pay for Race Director....any more than a "softcore fan" would pay for premium cable channels or pay-per-view on events. That's essentially what Race Director is.

140,000 hits on Race Director world wide is still pretty small beer . for a series that wants substantial International recognition. See what happens in 2007.

[luke]

Originally Posted by indycool

norman, this thread isn't about the Indianapolis 500.

Luke, I question whether a "softcore fan" would pay for Race Director....any more than a "softcore fan" would pay for premium cable channels or pay-per-view on events. That's essentially what Race Director is.

Question all you want. I don't have a link but I could name many forum members who aren't that big a champ car fan and just as much a champ car fan as they are of any other series that subscribe to race director. Its cheap for what you get anyway so its hardly a put off.

And Ryan I see you're back!

[indycool]

Well, forum members are ceratinly "hardcore" fans.......or they wouldn't be discussing racing.

[luke]

So indycool, would that make you are hardcore champ car fan as you post here all the time?

[norman-normal]

He doesn't respond to that sort of question. doesn't like exposure.

[indycool]

Sure, although that's well off-topic.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

And unfortunately for OW in North America even that coverage is fading.

Agreed. And a big crash in ratings in 2006 on the previous year too.

[JohnSSC]

No offense luke, but the presence of a person on a forum such as this makes them (in my book anyway) much more intense in their interest in auto sports in general. The average or casual fan probably does not know these places exist let alone visit them regularly. It would be beneficial to step back from being an avid fan and look through the prism of "Joe Average" who may tune in regularly on the telly but really does not have a deeper interest that carries over to finding a discussion group to talk about it.

The fact that one posts in a particular forum or sub forum does not make that person a "hardcore" fan of a particular series. Despite comments to the contrary I do not have an axe to grind for one or the other series - as one member noted I am an "equal opportunity pessimist."

My point is that I come here to discuss and unlike some of our fellow participants, have little time or interest in taking personal jabs at other members at every opportunity and then congratulating myself on my superior wit. I am here, simply because I love racing. Being a resident of the US, of course my first interest is in the racing that goes on here. Being that (no offense) I have shoes older than some of you have been alive, I have seen a great deal of "sturm und drang" and view this as perhaps the last act but truly do hope that the fat lady won't sing and we will get back to the good old days (and I am talking USAC here).

If the 140K number is a good one than I would suspect that there is not a casual fan among that number. Further, as a world-wide number that is not very good when you consider the US alone has a population of 300 millions. The bottom-line here is that neither product is doing much to attract viewers (or fans) and until they wise up and stop acting like a bunch of spoiled brats squabbling amongst each other, the pooch will be screwed permanently.

I don't want to have to take a crash course in GP2 or A1GP to get the open wheel fix I need to complement F1.

[luke]

No offence taken John, but you having shoes older then some members age, what does that have to do with?

[JohnSSC]

Perspective.

At 16 I was a hardcore F1 fan and a hardcore USAC fan but I had no filter to judge whether the racing was good, bad or indifferent to times previous. I knew only the "present." Now that I and my shoes are much older, I can compare and contrast various eras. My perception of the times when I was in my teens has changed a bit. Having witnessed the USAC/CARTsplit has ameliorated how I view the current split. I am, fortunately or unfortunately too young to remember the AAA/USAC split.

This is not to invalidate what someone else experiences and feels about that experience. It simply means that I view the current experience through a prism that has (for me) valuable experiences that I can use to form my own opinions.

[Tim Northcutt]

Look....

The exchanges between Luke, Norman and indycool above have nothing to do with Surfers, and border on the personal...

Let's just stick to the topic at hand, shall we???

and be sure to challenge the subject matter in the post, and not the poster...