V8ST - 2014/15

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

I'm not so surprised.
Recently there has been a period (2005 - 2010) where there was a real buzz.
NZV8 had massive fields and plenty of 'lowest common denominator' on track behaviour to ensure that it made the evening news.

Toyota had launched TRS and was splashing money around to ensure all eyes were on the sport.

A1GP came along. Government money for the Sport!

There was a cohort of VERY accomplished young drivers beginning to mature and provide interest as they threw themselves onto the world stage.

V8SC was on our screens and life was good.

What we are seeing now is not much more than a re-adjustment.

When GFC arrived the flashy corporate money tightened up. Grids at the top level will still strong enough but there was no longer the investment in the sport. The feeder championship classes were decimated by mismanagement and a lack of decisive leadership.

Think back to the early 2000's where most of the championship classes fielded 8 - 16 cars (some starting with 16 but ending with 8 :-)

The last great surge was around 88 - 93. The time of Group A, Wellington Street Race, Red-Hot Formula Ford racing as a nursery for many of our 'greats' of today. Good times.

What killed that? The Savings and Loans Crisis of the late 80's, early 90's finally impacted on Australasia.

When 'big money' is tight, people race as a hobby - often leaving their car in the shed if things are tough or racing on limited expenditure.

It will all swing around again. I'm surprised a fan of the past like yourself hasn't spotted this correlation.

Excellent post.

Regarding lower spectator numbers, you can add in (a) live television coverage, this did have an effect on our gates as public did not travel to attend the televised meeting/s. (b) Excellent television coverage, much of it live, of top level International motorsport, our level of sport simply did not compare. People could get their fix without moving from the couch.(c) Live electronic timing and results systems, you did not need to be at the track to find out what was happening. (d) Social media where within minutes of race YouTube footage, much of it from in car cameras was out on the internet. (e) Changed social attitudes, there was a time when you and your mates would sit on the embankments and spend a fair bit of the day sipping away at a few ales, this is no longer socially acceptable behaviour.

You could delete the reference to motorsport in all those points and replace them with Cricket (or any number of other sports) and you will find that the same reasons apply

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

If as you allege, there was another team who made the same infraction, the fault lies equally with the competitors for not drawing official attention to the fact.

I have already asked this question of GT86 (from his post # 903) and will ask the same question of Chappelli's recent post, Which team in R3 are you (being Mr GT86 or Chappelli) reffering to?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

As per GT 86's comment...


If you've got someone who sounds like they were pretty close to the action saying the above and a layman like myself can watch a few PitStops and find as many breaches, I'd suggest that there seems to a fairly fundamental problem in policing the rules.


I guess my question is, what if anything happens as a post analysis?

If I'm responsible for making sure X doesn't happen and someone shows me evidence that I missed X happening a couple of times, I'm fairly sure I'd be pretty keen to understand what happened to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'd certainly expect those higher up the food chain to be pretty motivated to understand the issues and given the number of X's that appear to be happening I'd expect there to be a certain level of embarrassment at the top of the food chain.

Hi Chappelli,

You and I know you are not exactly at arms length on this infraction, so rather than keeping it 'stoked up' lets accept **** happens and trust that it does not happen again.

After all one needs to be objective when all is said and done. I as you well know am also close friend's of all the interested parties here and a passive shareholder in Team4, so I hear both sides of the story, and more.

The fact of the matter is that SVG was absolutely "on fire" and would still have won, at least in my opinion, regardless of the obvious breach of the regulations. If when the protracted decision making process finally grinds out a result that means Mitch won and Tim gets second, that's a hollow victory in my book and alway's will be if you don't win it on the road.

[socram]

I think this pic will show up several points to the observant.

1) This series produced some of the best ever racing seen on TV - I'm thinking of the Wellington Street race particularly.

2) Look at the crowds

3) Note that there were several different makes running in this race.

4) Was there 100% parity between the cars, or was it run in several classes? Classes.

5) Getting decent photographs was easier - even though I was flagging at this event, I did take pics from the spectator area when on stand down. Oh, and flagging was quite enjoyable too as the racing was interesting, there were full grids and plenty of track action - including - OVERTAKING! The fact that some of the overtaking was in fact lapping, is irrelevant. Waving a blue flag on your own initiative rather than waiting for a radio message from race control gave you a better sense of involvement too.


I think it answers several questions as to where we were and where we are now.

PS: Not sure who was at the wheel here Mark!

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by socram

I think this pic will show up several points to the observant.

1) This series produced some of the best ever racing seen on TV - I'm thinking of the Wellington Street race particularly.

2) Look at the crowds

3) Note that there were several different makes running in this race.

4) Was there 100% parity between the cars, or was it run in several classes? Classes.

5) Getting decent photographs was easier - even though I was flagging at this event, I did take pics from the spectator area when on stand down. Oh, and flagging was quite enjoyable too as the racing was interesting, there were full grids and plenty of track action - including - OVERTAKING! The fact that some of the overtaking was in fact lapping, is irrelevant. Waving a blue flag on your own initiative rather than waiting for a radio message from race control gave you a better sense of involvement too.


I think it answers several questions as to where we were and where we are now.

PS: Not sure who was at the wheel here Mark!

Definitely not me, I never drove the "Brick" whilst it was in its original Red colour, this photo was obviously taken at the Pukekohe round of the Nissan Mobile Series, so it was either Robbie or Michelle Delcourt at the wheel.

Robbie and I won the 3 race Endurance Series the following summer when the car was painted in blue with the yellow stripes so that it represented the Swedish flag. We had excellent sponsorship for that Series, about $225K, which was big money back then.

Because the inaugural Wellington race was such a huge event with massive 3 day coverage on TV1 only the week before, Pukekohe was packed to the rafters.

Back then TV1 payed a very significant broadcasting fee plus all the production cost's of the coverage and even the cost of commentator's like Darryl Eastlake.

We are unlikely to ever see those day's again certainly not in my lifetime, and I don't have that much of it left so wont speculate on that point.

There was no parity whatsoever and yes it was broken up into several class's.

[JamesK]

Off topic, but just another example of funding issues within NZ Sports.

TV sports broadcaster Sommet Sports pulls the plug

New Zealand's free to air TV sports broadcaster Sommet Sports has ceased transmission today, citing "acute" funding difficulties.
The operation lasted less than 17 months after being launched on July 18.
It delivered both live and pre-recorded sports on Freeview Channel 14 and Sky Channel 69.
It was due to go off air at noon today and eventually pulled the plug at 12:22pm.
In a statement the channel said that funding initially understood to be available upon launch had largely never materialised.
They had struggled to gain the necessary support from advertising agencies.
As a consequence they had been forced to try to deliver a nationwide broadcast channel on one third of the finance.
"I am totally gutted at not being able to sustain something that we have long held a fervent desire to deliver to new Zealanders," Sommet Sports director Andrew Reeves said in the statement.
"Sommet was born from a dream to deliver free sports to all Kiwis. Sadly the dream is not to be.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Chappelli,

You and I know you are not exactly at arms length on this infraction, so rather than keeping it 'stoked up' lets accept **** happens and trust that it does not happen again.

To be fair, I couldn't give a monkey's donut about this infraction, other than to say I think it's a bit s**t that there's a debate over whether rules should be enforced...
As per Backseat Driver's and my requests, I'd love to know who the other team alleged to have used 5 PitCrew was or the teams who were allegedly refuelling prior to jacking the car up...

Perhaps the length of my arms places me too far away from the politics to understand but I find it terrifically odd that GT86's claims haven't been answered (either way).

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

After all one needs to be objective when all is said and done. I as you well know am also close friend's of all the interested parties here and a passive shareholder in Team4, so I hear both sides of the story, and more.
The fact of the matter is that SVG was absolutely "on fire" and would still have won, at least in my opinion, regardless of the obvious breach of the regulations. If when the protracted decision making process finally grinds out a result that means Mitch won and Tim gets second, that's a hollow victory in my book and alway's will be if you don't win it on the road.

I don’t disagree. I’d also say that objectivity is black and white, if there’s a rule and it’s breached, there’s a penalty regardless of who, when, where or what would/will/might happen.... If there’s another team who’ve done the same thing, the same penalty should apply regardless of who they are or where they might have finished.....
Anyway, I’m out. I’m simply don’t understand why being pro a penalty for a breach and pro officials picking up all the other breaches is such an issue....

[JamesK]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

........
As per Backseat Driver's and my requests, I'd love to know who the other team alleged to have used 5 PitCrew was or the teams who were allegedly refuelling prior to jacking the car up...

According to MSNZ Penalties and Discipline section, Car 27 was penalised for refuelling prior to wheels off ground.

[NZSTfan]

Im surprised Dom Storeys entry didn't get pinged for that as well. I was about a metre or so away from their first fuel stop and could see it clear as day.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Im surprised Dom Storeys entry didn't get pinged for that as well. I was about a metre or so away from their first fuel stop and could see it clear as day.

Hi Stu,

IMO writing rules that are difficult to police does not make any sense, and there in lies the problem. Somebody is writing these rules in isolation and for sure it is not the series owner Ray Noonan, however its the shite that's sprayed around when such things inevitably go pear shaped that lands on his series and as such Ray need's to take charge of his own destiny, and get rid of rules that make no sense and are near on impossible to police fairly.

[NZSTfan]

Fair call Mark.
However I thought the various people in hi viz jackets who were there to observe, in an unbiased manner, in each garage and it was there job to police the pitstops. I spoke to 'Brocky' at Taupo as she was doing our garage and she talked me thru the checklist that had to be completed and complied with for each pitstop.

A little birdy tells me there could be quite a cool announcement for a potential new driver for part of the sprints. If it works out it will be a significant step in the right direction as far as i am concerned.....

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Fair call Mark.
However I thought the various people in hi viz jackets who were there to observe, in an unbiased manner, in each garage and it was there job to police the pitstops. I spoke to 'Brocky' at Taupo as she was doing our garage and she talked me thru the checklist that had to be completed and complied with for each pitstop.

A little birdy tells me there could be quite a cool announcement for a potential new driver for part of the sprints. If it works out it will be a significant step in the right direction as far as i am concerned.....

There are two egg's, and I hear talk of maybe more, in the nest but neither has hatched yet, but the two that I know of are both good drivers, so if they do 'hatch' it will certainly help the category.

Murph has probably done the category a favour in moving on, at least we will not have to put up with his constant whinging.

[NZSTfan]

Yes he doesn't like loosing does he. I thought his outburst at Taupo re Jonny Mac was not a good look.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

There are two egg's, and I hear talk of maybe more, in the nest but neither has hatched yet, but the two that I know of are both good drivers, so if they do 'hatch' it will certainly help the category.

i guess Percat and Pye might need to find a seat ??

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

i guess Percat and Pye might need to find a seat ??

Very true, however they would need to bring a budget, as there are no "free lunches" going.

The 'eggs' in the nest are still being kept warm by the dotting parents, who have to pay either way to progress their sibling's talent, much like Simon Evan's has to pay to go into DVS if he wants to make a name for himself in Australia.

Both the drivers that I am aware of are Australian, have already proven they have talent and one has already competed in V8ST, with some success.

[GHOGH]

Jack Perkins does not have a fulltime 2015 v8sc drive, but might do the v8sc enduros. Would he look for nzst seat time to keep the eye in?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by GHOGH

Jack Perkins does not have a fulltime 2015 v8sc drive, but might do the v8sc enduros. Would he look for nzst seat time to keep the eye in?

Jack would love to do the ST sprint rounds but does not have a budget, that's the whole issue with top level racing in NZ it cost big money, The TRS series has 20 brand new you beaut cars but only 3 NZ drivers of the 18 confirmed drivers for the exact same reason.

There are also 12 brand new Toyota 86's race cars still waiting for owners 2 seasons after they were built and no takers, why? MSNZ were very quick to give this category National Championship Status, before the cars had even turned a wheel, what does that tell you? They are a law unto themselves right?

Because they are expensive to run with a set of tyre's costing $2,800, inclusive of gst, plus expensive panel cost's when you stiff one!

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Jack would love to do the ST sprint rounds but does not have a budget, that's the whole issue with top level racing in NZ it cost big money, The TRS series has 20 brand new you beaut cars but only 3 NZ drivers of the 18 confirmed drivers for the exact same reason.

wasn't NZST all about 'stars in cars' ? what about creating stars of the future, which is what TRS has done. very few series winners havn't gone on to better things............ so is that such a bad thing if the feild isn't full of near-bankrupt Kiwis trying to make a good karter into an F1 driver ??
when you look at the pedigree of some of the guys we have had down here, in TRS, why would they not come South to keep match-fit ??

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

There are also 12 brand new Toyota 86's race cars still waiting for owners 2 seasons after they were built and no takers, why? MSNZ were very quick to give this category National Championship Status, before the cars had even turned a wheel, what does that tell you? They are a law unto themselves right?

Because they are expensive to run with a set of tyre's costing $2,800, inclusive of gst, plus expensive panel cost's when you stiff one!

yip, and your former NZST are seriously cheap to run and drivers are queing to get a drive in one !!!!
what is with the big hang-up regarding yourself and MSNZ ? did you get bored of constantly being pinged for 'being competitive" and took your toys to a new sandpit that failed ??
sick of being picked on for winning with 'overly competitive ' cars ?
come clean, please Mark.

[raymond]

[QUOTE=socram;3484200]I think this pic will show up several points to the observant.

1) This series produced some of the best ever racing seen on TV - I'm thinking of the Wellington Street race particularly.

2) Look at the crowds

3) Note that there were several different makes running in this race.

4) Was there 100% parity between the cars, or was it run in several classes? Classes.

5) Getting decent photographs was easier - even though I was flagging at this event, I did take pics from the spectator area when on stand down. Oh, and flagging was quite enjoyable too as the racing was interesting, there were full grids and plenty of track action - including - OVERTAKING! The fact that some of the overtaking was in fact lapping, is irrelevant. Waving a blue flag on your own initiative rather than waiting for a radio message from race control gave you a better sense of involvement too.


QUOTE]

Great photo Ray.

I love the safety fencing in the foreground, iconic cabbage trees and the undulations in the track. Gives the image a lot of character.
I also agree with your points on flag marshalling. Having been a flag marshall way back before this event (and the weekend before this event at Wellington)..the new rules for the blue flag are just a bit weird. Comes from the FIA. Personally; flag marshalls can and should think for themselves and don't need an "adult figure" telling them when to wave a blue flag.

There were several classes Ray, based really on cc ratings mainly

Was at a strategy thingy on Friday where one of the convenors asked what was the most significant moment in NZ motorsport history that I could remember. A lot of varied and interesting answers, but mine was the First Wellington Nissan Cue/Mobil event. reasons were it was the first time we were exposed to a purely professional sports promoter being involved in our sport and also it exposed us to International Group A and saw the 're-introduction" of an FIA class as a NZ Championship. The event also had the fairytale dream come true story of the Volvo coming from the rear of the grid to win, as well as the contraversey of possibly the wrong car winning due to a lap counting error. All exciting stuff....

[Concerned Racer]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

what is with the big hang-up regarding yourself and MSNZ ? did you get bored of constantly being pinged for 'being competitive" and took your toys to a new sandpit that failed ??
sick of being picked on for winning with 'overly competitive ' cars ?
come clean, please Mark.

I'm sure if you invested your time and money into a starting a new championship only to have the 'impartial' governing body financially support legal action against it, you would be fairly dark on them too.

FYI, That 'overly competitive' TL you seem to be referring to has run for several years now with the same kit as it had when Kayne was in it, been scrutinised by the same blokes, and has not been pinged.

Why not try post something constructive instead of writing dribble and hitting at people who are actually positively contributing to motorsport in New Zealand?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Concerned Racer

I'm sure if you invested your time and money into a starting a new championship only to have the 'impartial' governing body financially support legal action against it, you would be fairly dark on them too.

FYI, That 'overly competitive' TL you seem to be referring to has run for several years now with the same kit as it had when Kayne was in it, been scrutinised by the same blokes, and has not been pinged.

Why not try post something constructive instead of writing dribble and hitting at people who are actually positively contributing to motorsport in New Zealand?

Hi Mark.......... or is that Chris ? ...or Joylon ?

[Concerned Racer]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

Hi Mark.......... or is that Chris ? ...or Joylon ?

And there it is, another constructive post from Smoking Joe.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Concerned Racer

And there it is, another constructive post from Smoking Joe.

And there we go again. Wind it in, guys.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Concerned Racer

I'm sure if you invested your time and money into a starting a new championship only to have the 'impartial' governing body financially support legal action against it, you would be fairly dark on them too.

FYI, That 'overly competitive' TL you seem to be referring to has run for several years now with the same kit as it had when Kayne was in it, been scrutinised by the same blokes, and has not been pinged.

Why not try post something constructive instead of writing dribble and hitting at people who are actually positively contributing to motorsport in New Zealand?

Hello whomever;

Actually you may have a valid point. The key word is in your first sentence.

A few people of many years have invested significant amounts of $$$ into the sport. But just a small fraction of them have done it without trying to make a profit from it.
A hugely significant number more have invested time into the sport, mostly because they do not have the $$$$ to put in. Volunteer Time is the undervalued factor.

I have enormous respect for those that have over a significant length of their lives, given their time to the sport. I find this more important that those that invest $$$ solely because without the volunteers, we wouldn't be playing, or we would be paying considerably more to ensure we have the services at the racetrack/rally stage.

Sorry; way off topic, but you started me thinking with your post

[Kiwi race fan]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

If when the protracted decision making process finally grinds out a result that means Mitch won and Tim gets second, that's a hollow victory in my book and alway's will be if you don't win it on the road.

Sorry Petchy but that's the biggest load of ******** ever. A hollow victory is one that a team claims or keeps after it has been proven without doubt that they broke the rules.

Whether it had any form of actual advantage is irrelevant, the rules are the rules. Team4 broke the rules so shouldn't have won the race. Simple as that. Mitch was the first car home without breaching the regulations so deserves the win.

Hollow victory my ass.