Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[V8 Fireworks]

Fire resistant wheel arch covers added:


Source: https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...ards/10460982/

[V8 Fireworks]

In other news, the revised 5.4L Coyote engine map is "expected to be approved" too. Good to see the ATCC organisers acting swiftly on the troublesome parity concerns.

Did the 2-valve (i.e., more torque), larger capacity (i.e., more torque) engine have some kind of advantage on part throttle and/or lower rpm operation even though it is not supposed to? If so, hopefully that undue advantage is addressed now.

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...gine/10460961/

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

In other news, the revised 5.4L Coyote engine map is "expected to be approved" too. Good to see the ATCC organisers acting swiftly on the troublesome parity concerns.

Did the 2-valve (i.e., more torque), larger capacity (i.e., more torque) engine have some kind of advantage on part throttle and/or lower rpm operation even though it is not supposed to? If so, hopefully that undue advantage is addressed now.

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...gine/10460961/

Good news and makes sense.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Good news and makes sense.

Tickford will still **** up their pit strategy and crash into other cars.

DJR drivers will still be up front one weekend, but let SVG straight past, and next weekend be at the back, also will completely screw up one pitstop per car, per weekend.

Nick Percat will still be 12 positions behind Chaz.

But they will do it all FASTER.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Tickford will still **** up their pit strategy and crash into other cars.

DJR drivers will still be up front one weekend, but let SVG straight past, and next weekend be at the back, also will completely screw up one pitstop per car, per weekend.

Nick Percat will still be 12 positions behind Chaz.

But they will do it all FASTER.

You're a regular bundle of joy aren't you.

[Aarrgh8]

It sounds like he's been watching Supercars pretty closely these past couple of years.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Aarrgh8

It sounds like he's been watching Supercars pretty closely these past couple of years.

Yeah I love how everybody plays the man but nobody can argue with the facts.

Cam Waters seems to be the fastest Ford around but crashes too much.

Courtney has always been fast and ragged, but frequently damages his car.

DJR as a team has been in constant decline since Penske left and Dr Story has been ill. Misreading rules, taking pitstops when you just shouldn't, screwing up pit stops. Staying with both drivers may seem to be conservative. I think possible Will Davison past his best and ADP may get itchy feet if they don't improve.

The hope would be for Grove to get better - but they have Reynolds who has Jekyll and Hyde personality, and a super newbie.

WAU have strategy and execution right but only one car up the front, the second is nowhere.

There isn't a Ford team matching the top 2 Chev teams, regardless of parity.

[bluesport]

Practice #1

https://www.supercars.com/videos/cha...h-supersprint/

[V8 Fireworks]

Mark "salesman" Larkham chips in with some data:

Mustang throttle not behaving correctly (demand on top line, throttle position on bottom):


A strange problem indeed, hopefully that is fixed with the new engine map. Seems very improper to award points despite such a technical issue outside of the teams' control due to the use of category engine maps.

The idea that Mustang drivers were supposed to judge traction out of corners with a wildly non-linear throttle pedal and that this was the "best parity ever" seems most bizarre indeed!

Unless Larkham has used the troublesome Eastern Creek map to exaggerate the point? I dunno.

Fortunately the 100% throttle comparison seemed somewhat better matched (but those naughty Mustang drives better not have let off from 100% to 97% else they will only get 80%!) Road speed comparison with rpm on the top line, road speed on the bottom:


I'm guessing the red is the Chevrolet with the elongated shift cut? I wonder what is going on with the Coyote's strange behaviour on the shift cut (why does it take so long for the rpm to drop?), but at least they found a way to compensate for that, so well done ATCC on that.

Hopefully they can fix that properly later on, instead of using the workaround though.

[Mr X]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Mark "salesman" Larkham chips in with some data:

Mustang throttle not behaving correctly (demand on top line, throttle position on bottom):


A strange problem indeed, hopefully that is fixed with the new engine map. Seems very improper to award points despite such a technical issue outside of the teams' control due to the use of category engine maps.

The idea that Mustang drivers were supposed to judge traction out of corners with a wildly non-linear throttle pedal and that this was the "best parity ever" seems most bizarre indeed!

If only you could provide a screen shot of the data from a Chev in the same point on the track showing how their throttle translation compares?
If only you could show a screen shot of how a pro driver actives the last 50% of throttle in the previous generation cars?
If only you could provide the data on how much torque both Chev and the Ford provide at that throttle plate position/rpm?

Unfortunately you did not, so you neither proved or disproved the lack of parity in relation to throttle translation and drivability.

You do realise teams blame parameters beyond their control to distract from where they are doing a bad job in the areas that are in control of?

[banksie]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Mark "salesman" Larkham chips in with some data:

Larkham with the parity piece here.

The new engine map should fix the throttle anomaly. But how often are drivers on 98% throttle? Not enough to blame that on making mistakes in pit stops and hitting other cars.

As the piece finishes with, the speed trace shows the two makes are near identical, 0.1km difference.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Mark "salesman" Larkham chips in with some data:

Mustang throttle not behaving correctly (demand on top line, throttle position on bottom):


A strange problem indeed, hopefully that is fixed with the new engine map. Seems very improper to award points despite such a technical issue outside of the teams' control due to the use of category engine maps.

The idea that Mustang drivers were supposed to judge traction out of corners with a wildly non-linear throttle pedal and that this was the "best parity ever" seems most bizarre indeed!

Unless Larkham has used the troublesome Eastern Creek map to exaggerate the point? I dunno.

Fortunately the 100% throttle comparison seemed somewhat better matched (but those naughty Mustang drives better not have let off from 100% to 97% else they will only get 80%!) Road speed comparison with rpm on the top line, road speed on the bottom:


I'm guessing the red is the Chevrolet with the elongated shift cut? I wonder what is going on with the Coyote's strange behaviour on the shift cut (why does it take so long for the rpm to drop?), but at least they found a way to compensate for that, so well done ATCC on that.

Hopefully they can fix that properly later on, instead of using the workaround though.

So you want to stop issuing points in the Championship now? Is this idea for the rest of the year, or is someone going to decide when we start issuing points again? Who decides that? Can we start and stop when ever we like?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mr X

If only you could provide a screen shot of the data from a Chev in the same point on the track showing how their throttle translation compares?
If only you could show a screen shot of how a pro driver actives the last 50% of throttle in the previous generation cars?
If only you could provide the data on how much torque both Chev and the Ford provide at that throttle plate position/rpm?

Unfortunately you did not, so you neither proved or disproved the lack of parity in relation to throttle translation and drivability.

You do realise teams blame parameters beyond their control to distract from where they are doing a bad job in the areas that are in control of?

Unhappiness with the comparison should be addressed to Mark Larkham in any case!

The plot thickens:

The aforementioned method of analysing data, however, excludes the impact of the shift cut discrepancy, thought to be 50ms versus 105ms, and thus is said to be reflective of the traits of the engines themselves.

What there is confidence about is that the latest engine recalibration will not be the last.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/04/29...3-parity-woes/

Originally Posted by banksie

As the piece finishes with, the speed trace shows the two makes are near identical, 0.1km difference.

Yes, those are encouraging signs that the cars are well-matched on power and drag (assuming the same wing level on both cars).

Though ideally they will want to get the engines matched on the shift cut, as otherwise whether or not they match perfectly on a straight will depend on how many gear changes there are.

[Mixer]

I have to ask the question of how Ford didn't figure out these issues during their testing, and ask pretty serious questions given that engine is an international effort vs Kenny Mac...

Also I await their next excuse after this third cause for their lack of pace.

[v8supes]

For this track i think they should have a light on the rear for when they are going to pit. Ruins the race of the spun car and potentially the race of the car that spun the car.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by v8supes

For this track i think they should have a light on the rear for when they are going to pit.

You mean turn signal indicators. Like all cars (except most BMWs) have

[S griffin]

I think every car has that. Didn't know that about the Beemers though, any reason why?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think every car has that. Didn't know that about the Beemers though, any reason why?

It was a joke.

In any case, the Camaro and Mustang formula has done little to raise interest in the Australian Touring Car Championship, if anything it has done the opposite and reduced interest. :/

Wouldn't a BMW and Nissan and Mustang formula have been more sensible to try to attract a broader audience and lose the "bogan" image the ATCC seems to have picked up?

I'm sure many are tuning in, wondering why Chevrolet Camaros are so prominent in the Australian Touring Car Championship - when that is neither a common brand nor common vehicle - and then tuning out.

[bluesport]

Well 3 rounds in and the mustang still hasn't won a race.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Well 3 rounds in and the mustang still hasn't won a race.

Maybe if Reynolds stopped waving people by. SVG P1 then P21 it is a very fine line. Interesting to see SVG try and get a run on ADP over the hill today, SVG pulled out to pass, and ADP pulled a gap.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think every car has that. Didn't know that about the Beemers though, any reason why?

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZLBfzBeyeKq96rv77

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

Maybe if Reynolds stopped waving people by. SVG P1 then P21 it is a very fine line. Interesting to see SVG try and get a run on ADP over the hill today, SVG pulled out to pass, and ADP pulled a gap.

I'll have to take your word for it as I didn't get to see the races.

Just wondering what the noise around the pits will be?

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

I'll have to take your word for it as I didn't get to see the races.

Just wondering what the noise around the pits will be?

They did a replay of it as it was pretty noticeable. Shane was right on him coming out of the turn with a good exit. I thought the parity looked pretty good at that track. Guys were going from hero to zero pretty fast from race to race, regardless of what they were in.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Well 3 rounds in and the mustang still hasn't won a race.

SO your point is ?

Bad Managment or Driving or you crowing parity?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

SO your point is ?

Bad Managment or Driving or you crowing parity?

The parity seems closer to correct, however an Australian Touring Car Championship dominated by the obscure Chevrolet Camaro is really bizarre and of minor interest.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense why ATCC organisers did not opt for a more relevant second vehicle like a Nissan Z? It could have been a nice variety with the Tochigi version of a muscle car going up against the Detroit version (perhaps add the Munich version in there too?), instead of just two same-same Detroit cars.

The Gen 3 Australian Touring Car seems to have missed the mark and is not going to have people tuning in, it seems.