[LM24] OK, So What Do We Talk About Between Last Year's Le Mans and Next Year's.....?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

i think i still have one of those, although not quite in such good condition

What, a freebie ticket? I have three enceintes generales from 1989. I still need a G category 'B' ticket.

[S griffin]

You don’t have to go there to apply for a free ticket?

[GT6]

i think mine is the top left one

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

You don’t have to go there to apply for a free ticket?

I'd never seen a free ticket before.

[Truckosaurus]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'd never seen a free ticket before.

We got some free tickets for the practice weekend one year. We were still on the waiting list for the Houx campsite and the ACO said it was easier to give us some gratis tickets rather than half-dispatch our order of 'real' tickets.

I also got a re-print of a grandstand ticket when I lost it in town one Friday (or may have been pickpocketed etc) - the ticket office helpfully wrote 'this is the real ticket' in biro on it in case someone turned up with the original

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

We got some free tickets for the practice weekend one year. We were still on the waiting list for the Houx campsite and the ACO said it was easier to give us some gratis tickets rather than half-dispatch our order of 'real' tickets.

I also got a re-print of a grandstand ticket when I lost it in town one Friday (or may have been pickpocketed etc) - the ticket office helpfully wrote 'this is the real ticket' in biro on it in case someone turned up with the original

That's hilarious!

My ticket collection has expanded considerably. Yesterday I received an unused 1986 enceintes generales, still with the practice tear off. It's now 35 years old but looks as though it's just been issued.....

[WyldStallion]

Do you think Le Mans needs GT cars in the future beyond 2023? If LMDH is the hotbed for privateers like the word on the street has it then between LMH, LMDH, and LMP2. That alone could give you a 48-60 car grid for the Le Mans 24. Remember in the 1980s through 1992 it was 100% prototype.

From GT perspective, they don't need Le Mans like they used to. In the age of streaming and youtube, the Spa 24 hours and Nurburgring 24 are much much higher profile races now compared to around the year 2010. My opinion is that GTE Pro will be gone after this year or 2022 and it WON'T be replaced.

[Simmi]

They are still building out the new pit complex for 2023 right? Or has COVID hampered that project?

A 20-car top class feels like a good stretch goal for 2023. Would depend a bit on US take-up I imagine. But beyond that, like you say WyldStallion (is that a Bill & Ted reference btw?) if customer cars really ramp up and we get more new manufacturers - it's going to be tasty. You'd imagine that the likes of Toyota would move back up to three cars to cover off the increased competition.

For 2023 something like:
20 LMH/DH
20 LMP2
25 GT

That's assuming they can stretch to 65 garages. But between WEC auto-invites, assumed increased American interest and continuing to push AsLMS. It's going to be near impossible. Return of qualifying maybe? I'd certainly be up for a significant reduction in GT cars but I think it would be a massive shame to remove that class from Le Mans.

[Truckosaurus]

Originally Posted by Simmi

...but I think it would be a massive shame to remove that class from Le Mans.

Indeed. Having 'road going' style GT cars is such a part of LM history I can't see them ever removing the class, even if they could fill the grid with prototypes.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

Indeed. Having 'road going' style GT cars is such a part of LM history I can't see them ever removing the class, even if they could fill the grid with prototypes.

I don't think so either, but there was a long period in the 80's/early 90s when prototypes had the whole grid.

[Peter Mallett]

The last road going gt and sports cars must have been 1970 after that the non prototypes were group 2 touring cars. The current "road going" cars are not really in that spirit. Even the Viper GTS was not a car for the road, just too difficult to control for day to day use.

The Corvettes, Porsches and the late Ford GTs are also track based IMO.

[GT6]

i agree they are not really road cars, but they do pass a reasonable resemblance to cars we could drive if we had the money.

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The last road going gt and sports cars must have been 1970 after that the non prototypes were group 2 touring cars. The current "road going" cars are not really in that spirit. Even the Viper GTS was not a car for the road, just too difficult to control for day to day use.

The Corvettes, Porsches and the late Ford GTs are also track based IMO.

I would suggest that the McLaren F1 GTR was fundamentally a road car, the '95 cars in particular. Witness the number of them that are registered for the road such as #06R and #12R.

[Peter Mallett]

Good point.

[Le Vieux]

The name we give to a class is surely not important.

The cars in the GT classes bear only a passing resemblance to what can be bought in a showroom. They're no longer road-going cars.

Equally, what started out in 1949 as prototypes - e.g. pre-production versions of vehicles that might have gone on sale to the public once developed, now have no similarities with production models.

The only thing we can say is that the GT classes are more in line with the original 1923 reasons for the race.

Personally, I like the mix. I already find LMP2 a little boring (they all look the same, just like F1 cars all look the same) and it's good to see a variety of vehicles on the track.

If it came to the crunch, I'd sooner see all GT than all prototypes.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

The name we give to a class is surely not important.

The cars in the GT classes bear only a passing resemblance to what can be bought in a showroom. They're no longer road-going cars.

This was my point.

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

Equally, what started out in 1949 as prototypes - e.g. pre-production versions of vehicles that might have gone on sale to the public once developed, now have no similarities with production models.

The only thing we can say is that the GT classes are more in line with the original 1923 reasons for the race.

Personally, I like the mix. I already find LMP2 a little boring (they all look the same, just like F1 cars all look the same) and it's good to see a variety of vehicles on the track.

If it came to the crunch, I'd sooner see all GT than all prototypes.

No argument from me. I watched Le Mans a couple of weeks ago and noted the presence of "road going" Porsche 911s. I'm sure they were modified but nonetheless were probably the last time race modified road cars were entered. The McLaren was always homologated for racing and thus needed relatively little modification to race. The Viper was a complete beast in anything but road going trim. I once saw someone with one on a track display at Spa. Must have spun at every corner!

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

This was my point.



No argument from me. I watched Le Mans a couple of weeks ago and noted the presence of "road going" Porsche 911s. I'm sure they were modified but nonetheless were probably the last time race modified road cars were entered. The McLaren was always homologated for racing and thus needed relatively little modification to race. The Viper was a complete beast in anything but road going trim. I once saw someone with one on a track display at Spa. Must have spun at every corner!

Whilst agreeing with the points that you make, the McLaren F1 was never intended to race when first conceived, this was the clear position at the time from Ron Dennis, Gordon Murray and Peter Stevens. Ray Bellm forced their hand in '94 when he declared his intention to enter BPR in '95. They figured that if the car was going to race then they should control the project, and also profit from it. Bellm also recruited Thomas Bscher and Lindsay Owen-Jones to purchase cars, the three F1 GTRs appeared at Jerez in February '95 and the rest is history.

[S griffin]

I know the McLaren F1 was a dream of Gordon, creating a car whilst not being restricted by rules. And you have to say he did a good job. Also was a shrewd move by Mr Bellm to race it at Le Mans, as that turned out to be quite successful and added more to the cars legacy. Look forward to more McLaren road cars in the future

[billy bleach]

2021 race moved to August.......

[Aysedasi]

If I've asked this question before, forgive me. I've assumed that there was no official race programme for Le Mans last year, but is that correct? I ask only because a programme was issued for this year's Spa WEC race which was held behind closed doors. (I know, because I have one).

[Adam43]

There was one for the Sebring race that was cancelled too! I have that.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

If I've asked this question before, forgive me. I've assumed that there was no official race programme for Le Mans last year, but is that correct? I ask only because a programme was issued for this year's Spa WEC race which was held behind closed doors. (I know, because I have one).

I'm 99% certain there was not. I have a friend who is one of the primary sponsors for Rebellion. He was at the race (sent me videos from the garage that drove me nuts!). I asked him, he said no programs. He did get me a unique, branded Le Mans face mask though.

Worst part of it was that he had my wife and I both signed up for their hospitality and a seat in the garage for the race.

[Aysedasi]

Man, that's a real shame, especially as the Rebs threw in the towel afterwards. I thought that must be the case with the programme otherwise one or two would have cropped up on eBay now for extortionate prices. (Although I have seen on there a race poster for the original June dates).

[Truckosaurus]

I guess the program is always printed fairly close to the race, so as to get the most up to date entry info correct, so not surprising one wasn't printed as the 'closed doors' decision was made well in advance.

There might be a 95% complete version sat on someone's computer.

Relatedly, is there a 2020 Yearbook? (I don't think I've got the 2019 one either, as it is usually a tradition to buy it at the race)

[dwh43scale]

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

I guess the program is always printed fairly close to the race, so as to get the most up to date entry info correct, so not surprising one wasn't printed as the 'closed doors' decision was made well in advance.

There might be a 95% complete version sat on someone's computer.

Relatedly, is there a 2020 Yearbook? (I don't think I've got the 2019 one either, as it is usually a tradition to buy it at the race)

Yes to 2020 - Grand Prix Models (no doubt amongst others) have it in stock.