[Rules] The FIA - what's occurring there?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Someone, maybe me, posted about this a few months ago. I think it depends upon what Massa is looking to get out of all of this. Is he looking to be crowned the 2008 champion? If so, that is not going to work. Is he looking to make the entire thing painful enough that more controls are put in place to prevent future cover ups? That might be a small victory. But regardless, he is dragging himself through the mud a bit.

I do get a kick that Bernie is all of a sudden having memory problems around this topic. I can imagine he has some purposeful selective amnesia at times.

Richard

Amnesia or not, this is the interview with F1-Insider.

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-eccl...-rekord-53946/

Unfortunately, the link to the English language version takes you to an entirely different page.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Amnesia or not, this is the interview with F1-Insider.

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-eccl...-rekord-53946/

Unfortunately, the link to the English language version takes you to an entirely different page.

No problems being able to translate into English. I tend to believe that BE said what the article says he said. I also tend to believe that what he said is true. That they knew, but decided minimize the scandal to the ultimate and eventual detriment of Massa.

Massa has the challenge that other top level people Mosley and White are now dead. And Bernie claims to not remember it now. I wonder if the interview was recorded. Even if it was, I can imagine examples of Bernie being "boastful", but also inaccurate as a way to discredit his statements.

Richard

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I am not sure if there is a separate thread for Massas new claim on the 2008 title (the forum search function on a phone is horrible) but it looks like he has assembled a legal team and the case is progressing…

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...itle/10508519/

I am not sure what to make of this, whether it’s a classless move or whether Massa is in the right to dig this up again? I am kinda in two minds about it.

Classless.

Prost is suing the past because the Monaco GP was called early and the Tyrell team being banned meant every race was different than it would have been.

Damon Hill is suing the vinyl revival to get his Dad’s Driving Lessons record back from Bandini. He is also suing points systems saying that dropped scores shouldn’t have been applied because of ma ma ma wibble.

Also the estate of Stirling Moss is suing 1958 because they say that the stewards should not have listened to Moss when he pointed out that Hawthorn hadn’t driven against the flow of traffic. They argue that acting with class has no place in motorsport.

[S griffin]

I just think it's unnecessary. Mistakes have been made in the past. I don't agree with Tyrrell getting banned for example. But lessons can be learnt from mistakes. I'm sure there's plenty of F1's past we might like to change. But in other cases where the right thing has been done, the right one has won. Moss was a perfect example of losing in a sporting way

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I just think it's unnecessary. Mistakes have been made in the past. I don't agree with Tyrrell getting banned for example. But lessons can be learnt from mistakes. I'm sure there's plenty of F1's past we might like to change. But in other cases where the right thing has been done, the right one has won. Moss was a perfect example of losing in a sporting way

I think if Massa was asking for process changes, etc. Basically.. "I was screwed, lets make sure this doesn't happen again to the next person". Then he could get support. If he is asking for a change in the championship or money. I don't see many supporting him and I don't really see him getting what he wants.

Richard

[Sodemo]

A sad point about that whole Singapore 2008 scandal was that Alonso still refuses to renounce his victory in that race, despite the fact that his team manipulated the race to his advantage. That’s a black mark on his character, which is a shame as he’s a driver I used to respect.

[Greem]

TBH I think there's some predatory lawyering behind this. He's always behaved with such grace and humility about his career that I can only think there's someone promising him a payday.

Except it might just be an invoice for costs.

[Adam43]

Do You Suspect That a Sporting Loss May Have Resulted from FIA Malpractice? Attorneys at Ecclestone & Mosley, P.A. Can Help!

If you or a loved one have been left with a only second place as a result of a procedural mistake or negligent treatment, the lawyers at Ecclestone & Mosley, P.A. provide free consultations to help determine if your ego may have a malpractice case.

For more than 73 years, our Suffolk malpractice lawyers have helped adequate drivers find out what may have gone wrong and determine if financial compensation may be available.

No Fees or Expenses Unless You Win! (and then it is loads)

[chillibowl]

No doubt a lot of these things are true but it is also true that the sport really failed to deal with a serious cheating episode in a timely or transparent way. As pointed out, the driver that benefited most never distances himself from the win, the driver that won the title never, to my knowledge at least, talks about how that race might have changed things, and one of the engineers at the heart of the controversy is now a literal FIA official.

Imo there are quite a few unpalatable aspects to all of this so I don’t like that it is all being brought up again…and I wonder if my irritation is being misdirected towards the person who has brought it up all again? Doesn’t help that this really does seem to be about money?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Do You Suspect That a Sporting Loss May Have Resulted from FIA Malpractice? Attorneys at Ecclestone & Mosley, P.A. Can Help!

This very worthy firm has now been re-incorporated with additional shysters, sorry, meant lawyers and the firm is now know as Sue, Grabbit and Run LLP.

All business terms as previously stated.

[Gerard C]

Mike, do you remember this: http://atlasf1.autosport.com/2001/feb14/business.html ?

[S griffin]

The thing is it was 15 years ago, you can’t change the outcome of the title now. You can’t say for certain Massa would have won that race without the Piquet crash. And if they took away the points for that race, Hamilton could argue he wouldn’t have driven for 5th in the last race if he knew that might not be enough for the title

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Do You Suspect That a Sporting Loss May Have Resulted from FIA Malpractice? Attorneys at Ecclestone & Mosley, P.A. Can Help!

If you or a loved one have been left with a only second place as a result of a procedural mistake or negligent treatment, the lawyers at Ecclestone & Mosley, P.A. provide free consultations to help determine if your ego may have a malpractice case.

For more than 73 years, our Suffolk malpractice lawyers have helped adequate drivers find out what may have gone wrong and determine if financial compensation may be available.

No Fees or Expenses Unless You Win! (and then it is loads)

I think I saw that commercial just last night!!

Richard

[wolfhound]

Mind you 13 years latter Hamilton had an even greater case against F1 and did not take it.

[Sodemo]

I think Massa just wants a payout, he’s not looking to overturn the result of the 2008 championship.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think Massa just wants a payout, he’s not looking to overturn the result of the 2008 championship.

I think you're right. I'd also like to think that someone (who also stands to gain financially if it works) has put this suggestion to him.

[Sodemo]

Thing is though, where does this end, is it the thin end of the wedge? What if Prost brings a claim against the FIA for how they handled the Suzuka clash between Senna and Prost where Senna deliberately ran into Prost at T1?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think you're right. I'd also like to think that someone (who also stands to gain financially if it works) has put this suggestion to him.

An ironically slow ambulance chasers. Very sad.

[Greem]

All I can say is that I hope it's a no win, no fee deal or Mr Massa could end up well out of pocket. A civil claim with the legal firepower the FIA can muster is a very expensive thing even before it gets in front of a judge, and someone has to pay for that.

Very much a case of "be careful for what you wish", IMO.

[Adam43]

I just hope it is no win.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Greem

Very much a case of "be careful for what you wish", IMO.

May be he's just targetting a gold plated watch

[Richard C]

Video interview with Massa. It's really still not exactly clear what he wants to see. He says it's not for money, but does call out that he is spending a lot of money to move this forward. So maybe he wants his legal fees covered. But he focuses on "justice" and "integrity of the sport". But what exactly that is, is left unasked and answered.

Whoever interviewed him did a terrible job. For example the obvious question is "Do you want the 2008 championship to be adjusted in your favor to make you champion?"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...oney/10511824/

Richard

[Tourer]

In that interview Massa talks about "justice for the result" (or similar words) a couple of times and "justice" is used a lot. He also said that no-one got punished for manipulating the Singapore race result & mentions the winner of that race.

Sounds to me like he's looking for the results of that race and maybe the championship to be changed 15 years later. Of course, we all know that people did get punished as a result of the Singapore race but I think Massa and his legal team are focussing on the actual results and a change to the results to provide justice.

I really don't think that this whole approach is going to win him any plaudits from anyone but he seems to be pretty resolute. Interesting that he mentions not just the interview with Bernie but also interviews with Charlie and Max. Wonder why the interviews with Charlie and Max weren't enough for him to take action earlier?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Interesting that he mentions not just the interview with Bernie but also interviews with Charlie and Max. Wonder why the interviews with Charlie and Max weren't enough for him to take action earlier?

i would suspect that it was those more recent comments by the commercial rights holder (or their top agent at the time) suggesting that the cover up was done to protect the sport (read as 'protect the sport's value') which opened up the legal possibility of financial remuneration for Massa?

still of two minds about all of this but he's not hurting anyone (except a billionaires pocket) with this so let him tell his story/truth how he wants to i suppose?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

still of two minds about all of this but he's not hurting anyone (except a billionaires pocket) with this so let him tell his story/truth how he wants to i suppose?

I would add his legacy to the list of things he is hurting. Of the many outcomes in this mess that he has re-opened, I see only a few in which it add vs. detracts to his legacy. It feels very risky for little chance for any satisfactory reward.

Richard