Is One Series, Again, A Possibility?

[GP Racer]

The news of Adrian Fernandez coming over to the League, is very good news for us, but at the same time terrible news for OWRS. They can hardly afford to lose anyone at this point. Word also has it that Rahal is sitting on the fence about a move to the IRL. If he comes over, well...

So my question is, IF (still a big if)OWRS does fail,(not enough drivers, teams, sponsors etc.), how will it affect the IRL? What could the future look like? Questions like, how many teams would come into the league, how many teams can the IRL handle, the road racing question and what venues etc, etc. Does TG have a contingency plan for this situation and what would it look like? In other words, alot of questions about what could happen, and what things would or could look like with one series.

Bear in mind, at this point, this question is still hypothetical, but the impact of a possible OWRS failure on this series, could be huge, so I believe the question is important. This is not a thread to bash OWRS, or put a nail in the coffin, but if Rahal does leave, we MAY very quickly, be looking at one series again.

[rush1]

Lets hope we are looking at one series again in a couple of weeks. OWRS demise would be very good for the IRL's Indy Car World Series. Besides Fernandez, you would probably add a second Rahal car, 2 Newman Hass entries and maybe a couple of the stronger outfits still alive in OWRS. Having around 25 fully sponsored cars with a limit of 4 road courses in 2005 would be ideal,IMO.

It also clears up confusion with the everyday sports fan. I have heard from so many people something such as "wich driver is in what series, what is the difference between CART and the IRL." It kills the politics of this pointless civil war that only complicates fan understanding. Having a race in Japan, Mexico and Canada will also appeal to international corporations and increase sposorship opportunities.

They will all understand the Indy Car world series however. Those same Indy cars that race at the Indianapolis 500.

Who knows, maybe we can start converting some NASCAR fans before NASCAR becomes the only major racing series in North America.

[marcus]

lets not write cart off yet shall we.

I for one dont want to see any series fail let alone one that is as good as cart.
But I guess one series with both oval and road courses would be good to see , but I dont think it should be because one side died , I personally feel it should be a joint unification and everyone should be happy with that result.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by marcus
lets not write cart off yet shall we.

I for one dont want to see any series fail let alone one that is as good as cart.
But I guess one series with both oval and road courses would be good to see , but I dont think it should be because one side died , I personally feel it should be a joint unification and everyone should be happy with that result.

I was about as careful as I could be, in the wording of my question, so as not to offend, bash, or write anything off yet, marcus. I didn't post this as flame-bait.

I agree that joint unification was the way to go, but that didn't happen and isn't likely to either. More than likely, one series will have to die, in order to unify this thing. My hope is, that TG is ready with a plan, should this happen, and he knows what direction he would like to take a unified series. It could be a nightmare, if he squanders the opportunity.

As for everyone being happy with the result, there's just no way.

[jjspierx]

IRL simply could not handle taking in more than a few Champcar teams IF the series were to not happen in 2004(I wouldn't count on it though, I think it will still happen). The engine manfuctures have already said they might not even have enough engines to supply 33 drivers for the Indy 500(assuming 33 drivers actually enter this year). Newman Haas doesn't have any IRL chassis's and neither do most of the other teams. By the team the teams could come up with engines and chassis's and do everything needed to prepare their teams for a complete jump to a new series the season will be halfway over or more. 2005 would be a different story, but I don't think you could count on seeing more than small handful of teams from Champcar compete on a regular basis in the IRL in 2004 if OWRS fails. Some Champcar teams probably wouldn't goto the IRL anyways if OWRS fails. The teams that did decide to race in the IRL would probably buy engines, chassis's and start testing as much as possible to prepare for a run in the 2005 season. Thats my take anyways.

[marcus]

Its ok GP Racer I didnt see this thread as a flame bait at all , In fact I think it is very well worth debating.

I apologise if you thought my response was having a go at your original post that wasnt my intention.

What I was trying to say was that maybe Cart isnt finished yet and that in my dreams it wouldnt be finished.

But hypothetically yes this could bring more teams to the Indycar series but also not , some may just say they are not gonna race anything.

but I think JJ has hit it on the head , not this year but probably next year if Cart fails then you may see some more teams.

It was fairly easy for Fernandez to swap over because he already has a team up and running , so im sure they had a spare chassis lying round at the workshop.

but its an interesting debate but im still hoping cart doesnt fail but if it does then I guess the Indycar series will benefit from any fallout from that.

[Snrub]

If there's one series it'll be because CART drops out. It may not be Rahal that specifically does it, but the loss of Fernandez is far more than just a car. The fallout could be massive. There's no one to go to the IRL. 1 RuSport, 2 Newman Hass and a 1 Rahal. That'll be it. The later 3 have IRL equipment and appeal. It would be foolish of TG not to pull strings to make sure AJ gets a ride.

[marcus]

who is AJ Snrub ?

[MLM]

Probably Allmendinger, marcus (I guess )

[marcus]

ok , now that raises another question that Snrub has raised , why would it be foolish of Tony George3 not to get AJ Allmendinger drive ?

is he an important part of something.

Im sorry I must apologise for now having a clue as to whats happening at the moment

[3state]

I expect that given these recent events, we will see an equal number of former CART teams - Walker, Fernandez, Rahal, Ganassi (sound of washing my mouth out with soap), Penske, Green, Newman Haas (or at least Haas) in Indy alongside the existing IRL. The pressure will be on to adopt more from the CART series both from fans and the teams so that the result will end up being an amalgam of the two in a few years time, possibly with equal roads and ovals.

Hopefully too the Canadian tracks as well as Surfers will return under the new Indy.

While I'm sad to see it come to this, I guess its a natural evolution and maybe a stronger open-wheel series will arise.

[marcus]

I have a long rant about this issue (in the positive I might add) but Im a liitle bit to drunk to even attempt to type it now

Gotta love saqturday Arvo's

[Tim Northcutt]

To Marcus:

Drinking a little "Tecate" this evening????

Wouldn't blame you if you did...

But I feel badly for Adrian...

He is really being raked over the coals in other forums and on other sites....

The Indy Star reported on Saturday that Rahal has not made any decision and that he will be talking with his sponsors to make a decision next week...

He makes it seem like this is about meeting his sponsors' needs...just as Adrian has done....

[marcus]

I'd like to say i was drinking a new sponsors ale tonight but unfortunately I cant.

i was drinking a current sponsors product and it was damm good

[MLM]

I don't take ANY joy over the OWRS situation
In fact, I turned on Speed a little while ago and saw the end of the (repeat) of the Barber Dodge race @ MO from last August.
I was there and felt a pang of sadness of what has been lost to some of us true fans of racing.
However, life goes on and, IMO, we all need to adapt to the changing tide.
I do think that road courses should be adopted and incoporated in order for OWR to survive in the US.
Keep the ovals but add to the mix....which,IMO,is what a lot of us want to see.

I want to commend a lot of the posters here@ ten-tenths for their civility, respect, and consideration of other's opinions....kudos, bravi/e, and !
This is a hard time, IMO, for racing fans....hopefully, we can all come together and enjoy the kind of racing we have always cherished.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by marcus
ok , now that raises another question that Snrub has raised , why would it be foolish of Tony George3 not to get AJ Allmendinger drive ?

is he an important part of something.

1. Doesn't take much to see that he's incredibly fast. Probably the best open wheel prospect over hear in quiet some time.
2. He's American.

Everyone is always talking about keeping talent from going outside of open wheel, well it doesn't get much better than this.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by 3state
. The pressure will be on to adopt more from the CART series both from fans and the teams so that the result will end up being an amalgam of the two in a few years time, possibly with equal roads and ovals.

The pressure maybe put on, but I'm not sure TG will bend to it.

The CART/OWRS fans have been so malicious, hateful, and distasteful to everything concerning Tony George, the IRL, its drivers, teams, sponsors, and fans, that I'm not sure Tony owes them anything. In no other racing series that I know of, have I found fans so malicious, and self absorbed, with their own sense of superiority in the racing world. Its a "our series is the best, and the hell with everyone else" attitude, quite unlike anything I've ever seen, even in the supposed "snobby" world of F1. CART fans seem to be CART fans only, not race fans.

And don't think of leaving the CART fold, just look at what they'll do to you. Ask Michael Andretti, he'll tell you, and now they are whipping Adrian Fernandez for making what is purely, a sound business decision. Leaving there is worse than leaving the "mob"!

So I'm not sure what CART fans that come over, could expect from Tony. I imagine no matter what he does, it wouldn't be good enough to please them anyway, so he may not do much.

To the victor goes the spoils...

[Hazza]

Hey, I made it, and I'm as stuborn as anyone.

So thats why I don't blame Adrian for coming over, and with this package whose to say that Adrian won't pick up a win or so?

By the way, what engine is he using?

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Hazza
Hey, I made it, and I'm as stuborn as anyone.

So thats why I don't blame Adrian for coming over, and with this package whose to say that Adrian won't pick up a win or so?

By the way, what engine is he using?

Glad you did Hazza, and I hope others come over and prove me wrong.

Adrian should be using a G-Force chassis and a Honda engine, I would imagine. He's had a few oval victories in CART, so he could prove to be competitive here, given some time.

[Snrub]

I don't think he owes anything to fans of the NBA either. The idea of owing something to fans of a seperate series of events doesn't make sense. (no offense intended) TG doesn't owe fans of the IRL anything, but he clearly has to act in a manner which will appease his customers. I would expect TG to act in a manner that might attract potential customers. If CART is to die then it might make sense for him to do things to attract CART fans so that he'd improve his product's position.

I don't think many people are actually upset with Fernandez leaving CART. There are a couple of zealots who cannot see that he likely had valid reasons for leaving and his presence and record that he built in CART was a main force that kept in going in 2003.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Snrub
I would expect TG to act in a manner that might attract potential customers. If CART is to die then it might make sense for him to do things to attract CART fans so that he'd improve his product's position.

I would agree with this statement, except I'm not sure it can be done.

The hatred for TG runs deep, some deserved, but most is just over the top, and beyond anything that makes sense. Short of turning the IRL into CART, which I don't see happening, what could TG possibly do to get CART fans to watch his series? Can there ever be amends after all the ridicule he's taken over the years?

[MLM]

SOME CART fans like myself, indycool, GP,etc.. are or will come over.
Some won't...either from sheer, unrelenting, and unreasonable hatred or are so sick and tired of being hurt that they won't follow OW (or, perhaps, any kind of)racing .

IMO, it's a shame CART/OWRS fans are characterised by mostly by the actions/behaviour of a certain forum for "fanatics" (not here...another forum/website)

[Snrub]

Outside of web forums I don't think people would shoot TG given the chance. I REALLY hate TG for what he tried to pull in January, but I'd still watch the series if it was good.

I try watching the IRL every year. Last year I didn't like it, but Indy was actually an okay race and I watched the whole thing. It had actual differences between the straight and corner speeds! I didn't try watching every track, but none of the ones I attempted to watch were very good. Up here we didn't see the first race, but I plan to try to watch the next one. (if it's available) Who knows, it's possible that the races will be decent up until Indy. I can't fathom how the 3.0L engine races after Indy will not stink. (unless there is some sort of grip change planned that I haven't heard about) Bottom line is that I like watching good racing, that's what built my allegance to CART.

[GP Racer]

I understand your feelings and anger about TG during the buyout Snrub, but now your anger should be directed at Gentilozzi, who I firmly believe, was never going to see this through. I stopped posting in the CART forum, because I felt so negative towards this man, that I didn't want to rain on the parade, not because I stopped liking Champ Cars.

I believe his whole plan, once he gained control of the assets, was to enter into a deal with TG, to merge the two series, and grab a piece of it. I absolutely believe that OWRS never planned to race in 04 or ever. His plan unravelled, when TG wisely turned down his offer. Now the 3 amigos are scrambling to put together a series, that was never intended to happen! I come to this conclusion from PG's early rants about one series is possible, and I consider TG a friend, and we've talked, and then in one day turned totally around and said TG is no friend of mine and treated him like a mortal enemy. I believe it was from a deal gone bad. There were also rumors floating around about this percieved deal. Besides bluster, and hot air, what has he really committed to seeing this endeavor succeed? Certainly not any of his money.

The warning signs were all over the place about Gentilozzi and what kind of businessman he is. One only has to look at his stewardship of the T/A series to see that he is not an honest broker. PG does only whats best for PG.

I really hope, that if one series happens, its one that will heal some wounds and make most fans happy. TG aside, I hope all open wheel fans give it a shot. In any respect though, its time that this ends, and we have one series to build towards a solid future. Time is running out for open wheel racing.

Sorry for my long rant, I'm sounding abit like Gentilozzi myself!

[BootsOntheSide]

I've alreeady become quite an IRL fan in the past 2 years - the sheer quality of the racing is enough to draw most people in. I can't say I like Tony George, but I hate BIll Gates and I'm using a Microsoft-based PC. If I decided purely on sentiment, I'd be slowly using a Commodore Amiga (remember them?). Commodore's decline is very similar to CART's, brought about by bad publicity, dismal management, technical confusions and strong competition. Maybe it is time ot move on.