Le Mans Series 2010 - Page 36

HORNDAWG · 24 Feb 2010, 15:57 (Ref:2639787)

So it is now official, the FLM (LMPC) cars will be included for LMS grids. Here

L.P.

davehenrie · 25 Feb 2010, 06:49 (Ref:2640153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

I'm sorry, did I miss something? A video of a nice sounding race car? Where?! :P

Mariantic's blog posted a link to some photos and a video.
Here is the link to the vid, you may have to scroll down past several videos to find the Rebellion video.

**Bentley03** · 25 Feb 2010, 08:50 (Ref:2640194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

So it is now official, the FLM (LMPC) cars will be included for LMS grids. Here

L.P.

Given the comments (relating to lack of power and straight line speed) from the FLMC teams at the WDWT, I have slight concerns that these cars could become something of a nuisance in the LMS. There is scope in the ALMS to give them a boost in power, but not in the LMS.

Mal · 25 Feb 2010, 09:25 (Ref:2640212)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Given the comments (relating to lack of power and straight line speed) from the FLMC teams at the WDWT, I have slight concerns that these cars could become something of a nuisance in the LMS. There is scope in the ALMS to give them a boost in power, but not in the LMS.

For P1 & P2 cars it will probably be like having a few more GT2's of the track. The problem may well be for GT2 you will find these cars in the midst of there class battles.

It seems a little odd to include them in LMS races as they dont appear to need to make up the numbers as they do in ALMS.

dxk1 · 25 Feb 2010, 14:23 (Ref:2640368)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

So it is now official, the FLM (LMPC) cars will be included for LMS grids. Here

L.P.

So now that these cars are included in both ALMS and LMS, will they be allowed at Le Mans in 2011?

DK

The Badger · 25 Feb 2010, 14:50 (Ref:2640383)

I hope not , as the only reason that they are presant on the ALMS grid is to boost the grid . Fortunatly the ACO & Le Mans dont have that issue .

HORNDAWG · 25 Feb 2010, 16:08 (Ref:2640413)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxk1

So now that these cars are included in both ALMS and LMS, will they be allowed at Le Mans in 2011?

DK

As they are now, I doubt it. Unless there is some waiver action going on for the engine. Then it is possible they might/could be entered as a P-2. It all depends on the level of submitted entries in 2011 and what class those submissions are. It is a stretch, IMO, but not that far of one, as the performance #s given for 2011 P-2 are right in the ballpark of the FLM/LMPC class.

L.P.

JAG · 25 Feb 2010, 18:49 (Ref:2640484)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

I hope not , as the only reason that they are presant on the ALMS grid is to boost the grid . Fortunatly the ACO & Le Mans dont have that issue .

If you are running 1000k races you should be targeting 40+ car grids.

With only P1, P2 and GT2 you need a fourth class.

*I'm assuming GT1 will be dropped after this season.

davehenrie · 25 Feb 2010, 21:36 (Ref:2640570)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

As they are now, I doubt it. Unless there is some waiver action going on for the engine. Then it is possible they might/could be entered as a P-2. It all depends on the level of submitted entries in 2011 and what class those submissions are. It is a stretch, IMO, but not that far of one, as the performance #s given for 2011 P-2 are right in the ballpark of the FLM/LMPC class.
L.P.

I think you have to also consider the input from other manufacturers. Lola, Zytek, Pesca/Oak et. al., may not be too keen on allowing Oreca to corner the P2 market. They would much rather lease used P2 chassis or sell new ones to teams. Certainly they won't stand for a low price alternative to be snuck into the back of the room and then promoted to the front row. So while some may dream of a cheap upgrade from the C class to P1/P2 group, I doubt the ACO would risk upsetting so many partners.

Further, independents like Radical or Embassy have spent fortunes trying to compete, and now they would have to also contend with low tech knock-offs? Such a path would risk all the manufacturers leaving to form some spin-off series and we have all seen how destructive such actions can be. (curse you for-ever T@%^ effin G&^&**)(sorry, off topic cursing)

HORNDAWG · 25 Feb 2010, 22:06 (Ref:2640583)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

As they are now, I doubt it. Unless there is some waiver action going on for the engine. Then it is possible they might/could be entered as a P-2. It all depends on the level of submitted entries in 2011 and what class those submissions are. It is a stretch, IMO, but not that far of one, as the performance #s given for 2011 P-2 are right in the ballpark of the FLM/LMPC class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehenrie

I think you have to also consider the input from other manufacturers. Lola, Zytek, Pesca/Oak et. al., may not be too keen on allowing Oreca to corner the P2 market. They would much rather lease used P2 chassis or sell new ones to teams. Certainly they won't stand for a low price alternative to be snuck into the back of the room and then promoted to the front row. So while some may dream of a cheap upgrade from the C class to P1/P2 group, I doubt the ACO would risk upsetting so many partners.

Further, independents like Radical or Embassy have spent fortunes trying to compete, and now they would have to also contend with low tech knock-offs? Such a path would risk all the manufacturers leaving to form some spin-off series and we have all seen how destructive such actions can be. (curse you for-ever T@%^ effin G&^&**)(sorry, off topic cursing)

Hmm, and who suggested that no other mfgs. would be in P-2? And just what do you think these chassis are? They are a full Oreca prototype with spec. ancillaries attached! Any other mfg. could produce the same if they wished! And lets not forget that to be competitive in P-2 there would be other things that would need changing on the FLM chassis. Also who is to say that the Lola and other chassis will not be brought into a similar control spec., in their P-2 configuration, in order to control costs to the privateers that run them? Which possibly could bring customers to all the mfgs. because of the (reported) lower cost. Also mfgs. such as Radical and Norma will probably be very happy with that, as they are, basically, producing similar models now.

L.P.

**joeb** · 25 Feb 2010, 22:10 (Ref:2640588)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehenrie

I think you have to also consider the input from other manufacturers. Lola, Zytek, Pesca/Oak et. al., may not be too keen on allowing Oreca to corner the P2 market. They would much rather lease used P2 chassis or sell new ones to teams. Certainly they won't stand for a low price alternative to be snuck into the back of the room and then promoted to the front row. So while some may dream of a cheap upgrade from the C class to P1/P2 group, I doubt the ACO would risk upsetting so many partners.

Further, independents like Radical or Embassy have spent fortunes trying to compete, and now they would have to also contend with low tech knock-offs? Such a path would risk all the manufacturers leaving to form some spin-off series and we have all seen how destructive such actions can be. (curse you for-ever T@%^ effin G&^&**)(sorry, off topic cursing)

I don't think we have seen any announcements from the Lola, Zytek or Pesca camps about building a car for the 2011 P2 regs - which may be leaning towards a lower cost class. So far Norma is the only manufacturer to confirm (and crash test) a car for the new regs. So I guess we will have to wait and see how much the Norma is going to cost to buy and run. But I don't think the other manufacturers are having anything snuck behind them.

isynge · 25 Feb 2010, 22:50 (Ref:2640604)

I can't help worrying that with stories like the proposed development freeze on homologated LMP2 chassis for 2011 on (in today's print Autosport), the situation could end up being slanted things towards a spec chassis like the ORECA FLM.

All of this would, to my eye, run completely contrary to the ethos of LMP2 - which should be an arena where constructors could build and run a straightforward prototype, and critically where garagistes could compete for class honours without having to compete against much better resourced factory entries.

One does rather have to hope that the ACO is keeping its eye on the ball here.

JAG · 25 Feb 2010, 23:39 (Ref:2640618)

In LMP2 many teams were burned after they bought competitive Lolas, Courages and Radicals, only to see their cars at the back of the class once the Porsche and Acura's arrived.

All of the well established manufactuer's should be able to produce a pretty distinctive and competive car first time around, P2 teams shouldn't be expected to upgrade their cars each season.

cmk · 26 Feb 2010, 00:20 (Ref:2640636)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

One does rather have to hope that the ACO is keeping its eye on the ball here.

That'd be a first!

mirkob · 26 Feb 2010, 09:01 (Ref:2640782)

Now, Fisichella and Alesi, are testing at Vallelunga with AF Corse:

racingworld.it

TheNewBob · 26 Feb 2010, 09:10 (Ref:2640786)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

In LMP2 many teams were burned after they bought competitive Lolas, Courages and Radicals, only to see their cars at the back of the class once the Porsche and Acura's arrived.

All of the well established manufactuer's should be able to produce a pretty distinctive and competive car first time around, P2 teams shouldn't be expected to upgrade their cars each season.

I believe the Autosport article mentioned performance balancing for P2, so you'd then hope that cars like the RS Spyder would be limited to P1. But I'm not sure P2 necessarily needs performance balancing, unless its just to help smaller builders like Radical, Lucchini and Norma.

ubrben · 26 Feb 2010, 10:01 (Ref:2640806)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

I can't help worrying that with stories like the proposed development freeze on homologated LMP2 chassis for 2011 on (in today's print Autosport), the situation could end up being slanted things towards a spec chassis like the ORECA FLM.

All of this would, to my eye, run completely contrary to the ethos of LMP2 - which should be an arena where constructors could build and run a straightforward prototype, and critically where garagistes could compete for class honours without having to compete against much better resourced factory entries.

One does rather have to hope that the ACO is keeping its eye on the ball here.

My understanding is that is will be spec gearbox, spec brakes, GT2 homologated engines and free chassis and tyres.

Ben

mirkob · 26 Feb 2010, 10:19 (Ref:2640818)

Vallelunga test, gallery in update:

racingworld.it

cmk · 26 Feb 2010, 19:15 (Ref:2641090)

Interesting mix of specifications of car at that test - I guess they do have a lot of chassis to choose from!

Seemed to me that the car with Alesi/Fisichella/Vilander labeled above the door and the late 2009 livery was running with the new wide-body spec while the other cars were not. Various different hood and front splitter packages in evidence too. 3 of the cars seemed to be running Michelins but the Pirelli-logo car did not...was it actually testing Pirellis? Or were those just old logos?

HORNDAWG · 26 Feb 2010, 19:29 (Ref:2641098)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubrben

My understanding is that is will be spec gearbox, spec brakes, GT2 homologated engines and free chassis and tyres.

Ben

GT-2 homologated engines up to 4.0L are part of what is on the agenda for P-1. I doubt that they would be used in both, but... maybe with different restrictors.

L.P.

**Bentley03** · 26 Feb 2010, 19:54 (Ref:2641110)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

GT-2 homologated engines up to 4.0L are part of what is on the agenda for P-1.

L.P.

No, P2.

HORNDAWG · 26 Feb 2010, 20:05 (Ref:2641115)

Yep, my bad!

L.P.

HORNDAWG · 26 Feb 2010, 21:57 (Ref:2641179)

It has probably been asked and answered already, and I missed it, but, what of Team WFR in 2010?

L.P.

Tim the Grey · 26 Feb 2010, 22:18 (Ref:2641191)

Not heard diddley since Silverstone, last year.

**Bentley03** · 26 Feb 2010, 23:17 (Ref:2641217)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

It has probably been asked and answered already, and I missed it, but, what of Team WFR in 2010?

L.P.

The last mention of the team on Tenths was as a result of a recruitment ad having been spotted (in Autosport, I think).

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