Red Bull Ford

[peebee2]

Are the blue oval actually about to be announced as deal done?

If so, whither Honda?

[Greem]

Oh, you and your inside info!

I cannot, personally, see Ford jumping into F1 again after their last attempt.

But I will freely admit surprise if it happens, even if it's a badge engineering job.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Greem

But I will freely admit surprise if it happens, even if it's a badge engineering job.

I freely admit surprise, even if it is a badge engineering job

[seanyb505]

I heard it was amicable

[Skam85]

Ford returning to the team RB buys off them in 2004 has a similar feel to Danny Ricc leaving the team to not be no.2 driver only to rejoin and be no.3 driver

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Ford returning to the team RB buys off them in 2004 has a similar feel to Danny Ricc leaving the team to not be no.2 driver only to rejoin and be no.3 driver

So Ford reinvesting in a Team they off loaded for £1. There seems to be a massive irony there. I hope they don’t bring their top heavy slow knowall management style that nearly undid the Shelby GT40 project and certainly did undo the Jaguar F1 project.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I hope they don’t bring their top heavy slow knowall management style that nearly undid the Shelby GT40 project and certainly did undo the Jaguar F1 project.

Agree - but they have a number examples of manufacturers that have avoided bringing the road vehicle management style to racing (Daimler, Honda, Renault, VW as just some examples) and of course Ford have done OK in rallying, NASCAR, Supercars, GT so hopefully by now have worked out how to manage the differences between road and race vehicle management.

[S griffin]

Well they've announced it. Have to say it's nice to have Ford return, but can they do the job with Red Bull? They need to do a lot better than they did with the team's previous guise. They couldn't have looked less interested if they tried

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well they've announced it. Have to say it's nice to have Ford return, but can they do the job with Red Bull? They need to do a lot better than they did with the team's previous guise. They couldn't have looked less interested if they tried

All they have to do is send greenbacks.

[chillibowl]

Sounds like a proper technical partnership so willing to give it the benefit of the doubt…but am curious how all of this will play outside the budget cap?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Sounds like a proper technical partnership so willing to give it the benefit of the doubt…but am curious how all of this will play outside the budget cap?

That’s what you’d expect them to say but in reality is just a sponsorship deal.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Sounds like a proper technical partnership so willing to give it the benefit of the doubt…but am curious how all of this will play outside the budget cap?

Trying to understand your budget cap question. Which budget cap? The F1 team cap or the new power unit manufacture cap? I expect Ford is primarily just a sponsor who wants their name on the engine. They may or may not be providing some technical input. At the end of the day, it will be a RBPT engine and they will follow the cap. If Ford provides "technical assistance" that will have to be accounted for within the cap somewhere. And oddly enough, I suspect that due to the power unit cost cap, it might dissuade someone like a Ford from actually doing much of anything on the technical side so they can avoid getting sucked into the required cost accounting and just write checks for RBPT?

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by peebee2

That’s what you’d expect them to say but in reality is just a sponsorship deal.

lot of comments from the partners about how this is a technical partnership though. perhaps it is just what they are expected to say but perhaps it will actually be more then just marketing...time will tell

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Trying to understand your budget cap question. Which budget cap? The F1 team cap or the new power unit manufacture cap?

yes was thinking about this new PU cap and specifically the amounts allotted to new constructors coming in prior to 2026...which to be honest i havent yet had a chance to really read up on so could be off base here.

and if its just a branding exercise i suppose there is not much concern at all.

there will of course be additional challenges of monitoring entities currently outside of F1 and while i do not doubt the ability to actually conduct audits successfuly there will still a learning curve as the system evolves.

side concern...after the acrimony of last years budget process, i wonder how vocal teams (specifically works teams) can be accusing a rival car manu of cheating? different can of worms then accusing a team that doesnt publicly trade shares of cheating as opposed to accusing a rival whose share price can and does affect real peoples' saving and retirement portfolios.

perhaps an extreme concern but (tin foil hat time) does lead me to want to know more about the timing of the announcement particularly because of an early launch date for RB and on the back of Ford announcing disappointing 2022 4q earning report and their subsequent drop in stock price over the past few days?

so if there is a connection here well thats the kind of insider info im looking for peebee2!

anyways, while i am excited that FOM is serious about controlling costs, i hope that this isnt too much too soon...time will tell.

[tocatrucky]

''Starting in 2023, Ford and Red Bull Powertrains – the Milton Keynes team’s dedicated engine division – will develop a next-gen power unit to supply both Red Bull Racing and the sister AlphaTauri operation from 2026 until at least 2030.''

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...C79l1YQ9b.html

So a few years to get good before its all proven in battle. Its a long run up.

[P38 in workshop]

I wonder if that will limit the amount of effort from Honda in the interim and where their mooted interest in the new formula might take them.Interesting times ahead.

[S griffin]

Maybe it's just as well Ford are only providing the money. It means someone in the know will be doing the F1 engines and less chance of things going wrong

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Maybe it's just as well Ford are only providing the money. It means someone in the know will be doing the F1 engines and less chance of things going wrong

It doesn't look a whole lot different than Ford writing a cheque for a couple of guys named Costin and Duckworth.
That time it produced engines identified as FVA/FVC and BDA, along with the DFV and the derivatives DFW, DFX, DFY, DFL and DFR. Successful result for a relatively small amount.

Much less than what the RBPT deal will cost them.....

[Adam43]

Does the “I'm a genius, just ask me” in that article refer to the Ford CEO or the author?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Does the “I'm a genius, just ask me” in that article refer to the Ford CEO or the author?

I am struggling to take anything serious from that site. First... can't be bothered to get a SSL certificate for his domain. If he wants page views that will be a challenge as I expect Google will bury him in their search results for not having that. I generally just about refuse to look at any site that doesn't have one. Second... I have a rough time listening to people who refer to themselves in the third person. From the first page...

Editor's Note: In this week's Rant, Peter decimates Ford...

As stated on the site, the "Editor" and "Peter" are the same person.

Maybe he knows what he is talking about, maybe he doesn't.

Richard

[P38 in workshop]

Well it seems I stirred up strong reactions with one link! If those of us with English with a first language can't deduce the meaning of a fairly simple piece of journalism,I would be worried.I suspect it is just a reaction to criticism of an American institution by a writer who appears not to have taken all those years of pledging allegiance to the flag as an exhortation to avoid criticising anything American. Others have chimed in with their views from both within and without the blue oval empire http://www.autoextremist.com/emails-of-the-week1/ .


Which does make it appear that the Red Bull deal may not be the best application of funds that all parties have ever encountered.If it leads to greater sales of vehicles that fulfill people's transportation needs,it will have justified itself.If the quality allegations are found to be true by a host of newly converted Ford purchasers it will simply increase the size of the army of critics.Effectively they have a three year window in which to get their products up to the mark.I don't think Red Bull will have any problem selling cans of drink either way.

[bathurst77]

so the lineage of the engines
Honda engines briefly were redbull PU then Honda PU again then ford will pay to have them badged Ford Motorsport

However one of the greatest motor sport investment Ford ever made was the wonderful Cosworth V8 that dominated the 70s until turbos took over.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

so the lineage of the engines
Honda engines briefly were redbull PU then Honda PU again then ford will pay to have them badged Ford Motorsport

I know I must sound like a broken record on this. But the 2026 power unit from RBPT will not be Honda designed or built.

Richard

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I know I must sound like a broken record on this. But the 2026 power unit from RBPT will not be Honda designed or built.

Richard

No, but it will be designed and built by Honda employees TUPEd over with additional ex-HPP staff.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

No, but it will be designed and built by Honda employees TUPEd over with additional ex-HPP staff.

When the TUPE occurred, did those affected remain as Honda employees or did they become RBPT employees?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

When the TUPE occurred, did those affected remain as Honda employees or did they become RBPT employees?

TUPE deals with transfers of employment, so people who remain with the same employer are unaffected.