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Old 9 Mar 2023, 14:20 (Ref:4146460)   #1
billy bleach
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Formula One designs that didn't work

In the light of the apparent failure of the Mercedes there must be a long line of blind alleys over the years? Williams Walruss springs to mind
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Old 9 Mar 2023, 20:23 (Ref:4146516)   #2
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The six wheeled car comes to mind.
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Old 9 Mar 2023, 21:27 (Ref:4146523)   #3
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Ferguson P99
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Old 9 Mar 2023, 22:36 (Ref:4146526)   #4
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The six wheeled car comes to mind.
It did work. It won a Grand Prix.
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Old 9 Mar 2023, 22:36 (Ref:4146527)   #5
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Here are a few cars that failed to perform to their teams expectations.


Starting with Lotus 56, 63, 76, 80, and 88. There maybe others as well.
The Brabham Bt46 in its early form with surface cooling and the BT55.
The Arrows A2, Mclaren M28 & MP18, Ferrari F92A & F93A.
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Old 9 Mar 2023, 22:39 (Ref:4146528)   #6
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It did work. It won a Grand Prix.
But that would also mean that the Mercedes concept worked.....
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Old 9 Mar 2023, 22:40 (Ref:4146529)   #7
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To answer what I think was the OP's question - every car that came third in the WCC.
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 10:47 (Ref:4146570)   #8
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It did work. It won a Grand Prix.
And some say that Goodyear failed to develop the small tyres in line with the increasingly sticky rears. Must've had promise, the FIA banned it (after it was replaced by a more conventional design).
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 11:03 (Ref:4146573)   #9
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In the light of the apparent failure of the Mercedes there must be a long line of blind alleys over the years? Williams Walruss springs to mind
The Honda RA302 not only did not work (the air-cooled V8 was heavy and underpowered compared to the Cosworth DFV I believe), it was also a death trap.



The magnesium alloy sheet metal was, I believe, unusually reactive in the case of a fire. Although most of the cars of that era had poor safety measures for the fuel cells (or lack thereof) and there were other magnesium alloy cars in F1 and other categories at the time.

IIRC, some say Surtees refused to race it because of the magnesium body while others say it was just because of the poor handling characteristics. Not sure.

Also: should F1 bring back Indycar-style pit paddocks, with tents (or even just grass) that are truer to the name of a paddock?



I'm no expert, but that front impact structure seems deficient! We have oil cooler, thin bulkhead and then feet. Yikes.


Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 10 Mar 2023 at 11:09.
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 11:15 (Ref:4146575)   #10
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Also: should F1 bring back Indycar-style pit paddocks, with tents (or even just grass) that are truer to the name of a paddock?
Be worth it just to watch the two Christian's foaming at the mouth about it!
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 11:22 (Ref:4146576)   #11
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McLaren MP4-18. Kept setting itself on fire so never saw a race weekend.
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 12:03 (Ref:4146585)   #12
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That front exhaust system the Lotus car ran in about 2011...?
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 12:14 (Ref:4146586)   #13
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I'm going with the ugly ones

Arrows A2 - although it did score points. Aero has come a long way since those days! Perhaps ahead of its time?



McLarens downfall was highlighted by this ugly beast in 1995, which was not only slow but too actually small to fit in poor old Nigel for his F1 swansong.

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Old 10 Mar 2023, 12:21 (Ref:4146587)   #14
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It did work. It won a Grand Prix.
I seem to remember reading that one of the reasons that the 6 wheeler did not succeed as the season went on was because the tyre company stopped improving the small tyres that this car used, but kept on improving the standard tyres used by all the other cars.

It was eventually outlawed. Along with the Brabham fan car, not a failure in my book.

The Brabham "Skateboard" may also have been ahead of its time, with its low profile with the driver lying down, it was not a success IIRC.
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 13:05 (Ref:4146593)   #15
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March 711. Maybe not a failure - Peterson finished second in the Championship - more blind alley than failure with its teatray front wing
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 13:19 (Ref:4146595)   #16
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It did work. It won a Grand Prix.

Huh, look at that, it did. I guess it was less of a failure that I imagined it. I'm not sure it "worked", but hey.
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 13:37 (Ref:4146602)   #17
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The six wheeled car comes to mind.
The Tyrell lurked about for a while - siwheelers from Williams, March and Ferrari never made the grid
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 15:21 (Ref:4146615)   #18
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The Brabham "Skateboard" may also have been ahead of its time, with its low profile with the driver lying down, it was not a success IIRC.
The cars in the 60's had the driver laying down. Even the linked example. Was that not just a return to the past, rather than a revolution as such?

Why did the drivers became placed more upright in the 1970's? Something about shortening wheelbases or aerodynamics at the time?
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 18:20 (Ref:4146640)   #19
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But that would also mean that the Mercedes concept worked.....
Which Mercedes concept are you talking about? How does whatever you are talking about affect what I said?
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 18:58 (Ref:4146643)   #20
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Which Mercedes concept are you talking about? How does whatever you are talking about affect what I said?
São Paulo Grand Prix 2022. The Mercedes concept won a grand prix.
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 19:41 (Ref:4146645)   #21
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I don't recall stating that the Mercedes concept was wrong. What was remarkable about them winning a race when the championship had already been decided?
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 20:50 (Ref:4146655)   #22
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I think the last few posts can be summed up by the term "perspective"

If Minardi had produced a concept that won a GP we'd call that a success. However, when the team is a team which dominated the last decade, and they finish third in the championship and only take a single win, we call that concept a failure.

Mercedes won a race. But the concept was a failure - or certainly the execution of it so far.

It's all about perspective.
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Old 10 Mar 2023, 21:17 (Ref:4146657)   #23
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São Paulo Grand Prix 2022. The Mercedes concept won a grand prix.
I would say the zero side pod concept is certainly a blind alley
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Old 11 Mar 2023, 06:42 (Ref:4146674)   #24
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And some say that Goodyear failed to develop the small tyres in line with the increasingly sticky rears. Here.
Must've had promise, the FIA banned it (after it was replaced by a more conventional design).
I think Goodyear is a good company, they have a lot of great developments! But she has some omissions!
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Old 11 Mar 2023, 10:08 (Ref:4146686)   #25
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I would say the zero side pod concept is certainly a blind alley
Toto - give Billy his account back, there's a good chap.
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