Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Barn Finds > ChampCar World Series

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 19 Mar 2005, 08:42 (Ref:1255809)   #26
marcus
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Australia
Australia
Posts: 12,053
marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!
well they have ruined the Long beach track totally so I'd like neither series to go there , its just ridiculus what they have done there over the past 4 or 5 years and even though I cant wait for April 10 in one way Im not looking forward to it because it IS Long beach.

BUT if there was a choice I'd prefer the Champcars to stay there because they have a greater history there and with tradition being thrown out the window (in both series) they need to hold onto something from the past
marcus is offline  
__________________
In Loving memory of Peter Brock
I hate it when im driving in a straight line & Seb Vettel runs into me
GO THE MIGHTY HAWKS !!!!
Old 19 Mar 2005, 09:25 (Ref:1255839)   #27
dubby99
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Under the milkyway
Posts: 234
dubby99 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I will never sign the IRL up to any race venue even if my life depended on it.
dubby99 is offline  
__________________
Real race cars don't wear bowties
Old 19 Mar 2005, 10:43 (Ref:1255888)   #28
Hazza
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Hazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Australia
Behind You.
Posts: 4,344
Hazza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHazza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHazza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Even if Tony George had just cut your hand off with a lightsabre, proclaiming "We could rule the open-wheel market like father and son" with your only option being to jump off the mining city into the endless space of bankrupcy?

[/Starwars Analogy]

...Do I smell a Tony?

edit: Hey, what a great unintentional pun!

Last edited by Hazza; 19 Mar 2005 at 10:45.
Hazza is offline  
__________________
"Abe will be remembered as a fighter" - RIP Abe.
Old 19 Mar 2005, 12:14 (Ref:1255944)   #29
rustyfan
Veteran
 
rustyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Sweden
Posts: 5,419
rustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcus
well they have ruined the Long beach track totally so I'd like neither series to go there , its just ridiculus what they have done there over the past 4 or 5 years and even though I cant wait for April 10 in one way Im not looking forward to it because it IS Long beach.

Truer words are seldom spoken.
rustyfan is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 12:21 (Ref:1255949)   #30
luke
Veteran
 
luke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
West Sussex, England
Posts: 7,263
luke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridluke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcus
well they have ruined the Long beach track totally so I'd like neither series to go there , its just ridiculus what they have done there over the past 4 or 5 years and even though I cant wait for April 10 in one way Im not looking forward to it because it IS Long beach.

BUT if there was a choice I'd prefer the Champcars to stay there because they have a greater history there and with tradition being thrown out the window (in both series) they need to hold onto something from the past
Sure the current layout isn't as great as previous ones, but they can't go back to some of the original layouts I'm told, because of buildings built etc.
But the current Monaco layout, is not the best there has been, but because of history, and it's a great event, it's still a great race.
Which is Long beach.

Roll on the......

Last edited by luke; 19 Mar 2005 at 12:27.
luke is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 12:25 (Ref:1255954)   #31
rustyfan
Veteran
 
rustyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Sweden
Posts: 5,419
rustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
Sure the current layout isn't as great as previous ones, but they can't go back to some of the original lyouts I'm told, because of buildings built etc.
But the current Monaco layout, is not the best there has been, but because of history, and it's a great event, it's still a great race.
Which is Long beach.

Roll on. the....
The core sections of Monaco has stayed the same, however. The same cannot be said for Long Beach.

Not to mention Monaco has nicer surroundings and more variation (in the "elevation changes" department in particular).
rustyfan is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 13:10 (Ref:1255972)   #32
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Fair points rustyfan, from a pure racing perspective Monaco is possibly the best street circuit in the world, although the way they've mvoed some of the barriers back in the last couple of years does annoy me, as it makes it easier than it was - the track which should be the ltiamte test of driver rather than car.

The facts electrocuted posted are interesting. Looking a US attendances, the IRL has generally been a lot more successful even when you ignore Indy (which will probably always be the biggest US OW race, no matter which series it's part of; a fact CART wrongly ignored), and its 2004 Milwaukee race got 50% more attendees than ChampCars did in either 2003 or 2004. I'm not sure whether you'd expect the IRL to get more at St Pete's than ChampCars did in 2003 - it's not a brand new race, and any momentum from the first race will've been lost by the lack of a 2004 visit, and there's excitement but also real doubt over the potential quality of IRL street races, but there will be more big names out there than 2 years ago. The 2006 attendance would perhaps be the acid test, as to how many first-timers enjoy it and return.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 14:05 (Ref:1255989)   #33
luke
Veteran
 
luke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
West Sussex, England
Posts: 7,263
luke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridluke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide
2004 Milwaukee race got 50% more attendees than ChampCars did in either 2003 or 2004.
The reason imo, is to why the irl, race had a bigger attendance (37,821 to 20,000) compared to the Champ Car race, is that the Champ Car race, was a night race, and I'm sure it was much colder, which didn't help.

And as this year the Champ Car race, is a day race, I would expect both would have a similar attendance, when compared, imo.

Last edited by luke; 19 Mar 2005 at 14:06.
luke is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 14:16 (Ref:1255996)   #34
luke
Veteran
 
luke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
West Sussex, England
Posts: 7,263
luke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridluke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
As to answer the question of the title, of the thread........If you were Long Beach why would you sign on with CCWS next year! Can we look at the positives, as to why it should still be a Champ Car race.
Instead of the negatives most of the time.
luke is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 14:54 (Ref:1256016)   #35
indycool
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,983
indycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridindycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Times change. People change. Situations change. Electrocuted makes a lot of sense in his post. If you have 25,000 at Cleveland and it looks packed, and 40,000 at Phoenix, and it looks empty because they seat 80,000 at Phoenix, which had the larger attendance?

There are comparisons to make in regard to changing series at popular venues. Long Beach made a change when it went with CART instead of F-1 because it couldn't afford F-1 any more. There wasn't much change in attendance when that happened. And Long Beach has been in the delicate position of being "first up" during the past few years.

Phoenix has been at the forefront of change twice. In 1979, Phoenix dumped USAC for CART. In '96, Phoenix dumped CART for IRL. In both cases, Phoenix was "first up" to make the switches. In both cases, attendance dropped slightly for a year or two but regained it quickly.

Long Beach has actually been losing attendance over the past few years. There are going to be a lot of factors in any decision Long Beach makes other than how many hardcore CCWS fans go there and would refuse to go if IRL is chosen as the headliner.
indycool is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 16:13 (Ref:1256066)   #36
codename_47
Veteran
 
codename_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Coventry/Birmingham
Posts: 1,213
codename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcodename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
Can we look at the positives, as to why it should still be a Champ Car race.
Instead of the negatives most of the time.
You're in the wrong forum for that.....

What can the IRL bring that Champcar can't?
Underpowered, over downforced racing machines and money hungry team owners....that's about it.

I agree that this years race and the statements about it will be interesting to see this year. I think as soon as the series related stuff is out of the way and the trucks are on the road to LB, The Three Amigos should turn their attention to sewing up the Long Beach contract for a good long while (though perhaps leave PG at home eh.... )

Although this could be yet another case of a track dropping the name IRL in an attempt to get a better deal......that's just so easy to do to apply pressure on Champcar these days
codename_47 is offline  
__________________
We need to win like you need to breathe....
Old 19 Mar 2005, 16:41 (Ref:1256089)   #37
carsten66
Veteran
 
carsten66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Germany
Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 696
carsten66 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
As to answer the question of the title, of the thread........If you were Long Beach why would you sign on with CCWS next year! Can we look at the positives, as to why it should still be a Champ Car race.
Instead of the negatives most of the time.



... but some people are prefering bashing and crying
carsten66 is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 16:56 (Ref:1256095)   #38
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
The reason imo, is to why the irl, race had a bigger attendance (37,821 to 20,000) compared to the Champ Car race, is that the Champ Car race, was a night race, and I'm sure it was much colder, which didn't help.

And as this year the Champ Car race, is a day race, I would expect both would have a similar attendance, when compared, imo.
Weren't night races one of CART's bright ideas to boost attendances?

We really don't know what the IRL would bring to Long Beach. A more secure contract, perhaps. As for the racing, let's see if the IRL has a good race at St. Pete's before drawing any conclusions.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 18:25 (Ref:1256164)   #39
rustyfan
Veteran
 
rustyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Sweden
Posts: 5,419
rustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by codename_47
You're in the wrong forum for that.....
So just because it's a Champ Car forum one has think everything is jolly-good?

Thinking back to the late 90's and remembering how bloody damn awesome Champ Car was makes it impossible for me to ignore the very obvious problems that exists with Champ Car today (and US open-wheel racing in general, for that matter).

That, however, is something to be discussed in another (beaten-to-death-already) thread altogether
rustyfan is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 20:08 (Ref:1256217)   #40
blaarg
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 308
blaarg should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Another champcar bashing thread! Absolutely amazing....
blaarg is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 22:31 (Ref:1256339)   #41
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It's not Champ-Car bashing.

It's absolute bloody frustration at what American single-seater racing has become - when there was once one great series...
Kicking-back is offline  
Old 19 Mar 2005, 23:18 (Ref:1256371)   #42
codename_47
Veteran
 
codename_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Coventry/Birmingham
Posts: 1,213
codename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcodename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyfan
So just because it's a Champ Car forum one has think everything is jolly-good?
No, but it's the ratio that's important.
X amount of good news vs Y amount of bad news......
X amount of talk discussing racing vs Y amount of talk discuss the series finances and attendance (And aren't the threads when people post seat counts at IRL races VS Seat counts at Champcar races always fun!.....oops! )

X amount of honest opinions Vs y amounts of spin, either good or bad....

Too much of any of these and it turns into a party political broadcast rather than a forum,....

I just want to discuss some racing! Not the 32nd anniversary "IRL to Long Beach/Canada/Mexico/The moon/anywhere else we hold dear thread!
Stupid off season!!

But then, as we will soon discover, things always look worse in the off-season....
codename_47 is offline  
__________________
We need to win like you need to breathe....
Old 19 Mar 2005, 23:31 (Ref:1256377)   #43
rustyfan
Veteran
 
rustyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Sweden
Posts: 5,419
rustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrustyfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by codename_47
I just want to discuss some racing!

So do I, and if Champ Car wouldn't have been so extremely late with the driver lineup, the fully confirmed schedule and the season start, we would be discussing the racing and current happenings - not sit around and discuss those three issues for the less-than-positive things they are.

Still, the last couple of days, with Walker's announcement in particular, have been a bit more positive. Hopefully it's a sign of more good things to come.
rustyfan is offline  
Old 20 Mar 2005, 17:54 (Ref:1257139)   #44
luke
Veteran
 
luke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
West Sussex, England
Posts: 7,263
luke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridluke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Times change. People change. Situations change. Electrocuted makes a lot of sense in his post. If you have 25,000 at Cleveland and it looks packed, and 40,000 at Phoenix, and it looks empty because they seat 80,000 at Phoenix, which had the larger attendance?

Phoenix has been at the forefront of change twice. In 1979, Phoenix dumped USAC for CART. In '96, Phoenix dumped CART for IRL. In both cases, Phoenix was "first up" to make the switches. In both cases, attendance dropped slightly for a year or two but regained it quickly.
From Speed


Quote:
Sure, it's not the only game in town like it was in the '60s and before NASCAR's emergence, but Winston Cup was already pulling in 80,000 in '95 when CART drew 64,000. The question is, where did all those fans go? Many of them were miffed in 1996 when they came to PIR and found Kite, Murphy and Carlson instead of Andretti, Rahal and Unser. Maybe they turned to stock cars or simply tuned out Indy cars.
Quote:
An optimistic estimate would be 5,000 and, as one member of the media observed, "I had more people at my wedding."
As the irl race at Phoenix doesn't seem to popular, I only wished Champ Car had the 'desert mile' race again.

In 2003 when Fontana was canceled, I believe there was a chance that Phoenix, could take over the race, for that year, due to the fires. (as I think both tracks, are owned by the same company.)

Last edited by luke; 20 Mar 2005 at 17:56.
luke is offline  
Old 20 Mar 2005, 19:19 (Ref:1257219)   #45
camcartfan
Racer
 
camcartfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
United States
Temeku
Posts: 497
camcartfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Would a twIRL car even fit on the Long Beach course? It would be similar to racing diesel trucks down Shoreline Drive.
camcartfan is offline  
Old 20 Mar 2005, 19:36 (Ref:1257236)   #46
norman-normal
Veteran
 
norman-normal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
Posts: 803
norman-normal should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I know where I would put an IRL car.... I'm sure it would fit,,, size does matter.
norman-normal is offline  
__________________
"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde.
Old 20 Mar 2005, 19:44 (Ref:1257251)   #47
Roninho
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 394
Roninho should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide
We really don't know what the IRL would bring to Long Beach. A more secure contract, perhaps. As for the racing, let's see if the IRL has a good race at St. Pete's before drawing any conclusions.
I guess Toyota&Honda will probably spend a bit more money on tickets&promo compared to Ford. Toyota wouldn't mind having their own cars in the race they sponsor. At this moment there are also more teamsponsors in IRL, which could lead to more hospitality-sales. Also the names of Andretti, Rahal, Penkse as well as being connected to Indy isn't a bad benefit.

As for CC, i guess the tradition is a benefit. Also they have cars made for road/streetcourses, which could result in better races compared to IRL. The fact that the race is on NBC could be a benefit as well (results in a higher event sponsorship).

Imo it will come down to which series the people of LB have the most faith in, in terms of long term stability and potential of (some level of) succes. If i had to make the decision at this moment, the IRL seems to be the better choice, but things can change rapidly.
Roninho is offline  
Old 20 Mar 2005, 21:23 (Ref:1257389)   #48
Electrocuted
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
United States
Posts: 51
Electrocuted should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roninho
Imo it will come down to which series the people of LB have the most faith in, in terms of long term stability and potential of (some level of) succes. If i had to make the decision at this moment, the IRL seems to be the better choice, but things can change rapidly.
The people of LB have little to do with it. Dover owns LBGP. Pook talked to TG back in 94 or 95 about switching. Dover told the Bnkrpt judge they didnt want to continue with OWRS. The late start getting the season confirmed and lack of sponsors spending money at the track doesnt help.

As anyone can observe,,, to keep it,, OWRS has to have a GREAT weekend, a great crowd over last years 70,000 race day, every support race has to have full fields putting on one heck of a show. The OWRS race has to be one of the best in years,, which I'm sure it will be since it's back to race and pit anyway you want from green to checker. And the new crew that replaced everyone layed off last Christmas,, must do their jobs well. Not an easy task since this is the first race.... And,,,, throughout the year OWRS teams must get sponsorship from larger corporations that will spend money at LB. I hope/think Dover will wait until later in the season to decide what to do next year,,, gives OWRS time to get their ducks in a row.
Electrocuted is offline  
Old 21 Mar 2005, 01:18 (Ref:1257603)   #49
Dov
Veteran
 
Dov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Canada
Toronto, Canada
Posts: 3,183
Dov should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Long Beach getting ready for the Grand Prix

From presstelegram.com
Dov is offline  
__________________
Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT!
Old 21 Mar 2005, 18:02 (Ref:1258157)   #50
Snrub
Veteran
 
Snrub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Canada
London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,744
Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrocuted
2004 IRL
30,000 Homestead
65,000 Motegi
250,000 Indy
85,000 Texas (I think it's a few thousand to high)
42,000 Richmond
50,000 Kansas
??,??? Nashville (40's I think ??????)
38,000 Mlwk
58,000 Kentucky
??,??? Pikes Peak (High 30's or low 40's I think??????)
60,000 Chicago
75,000 Texas

2004 OWRS
65,000 LB
28,000 Mlwk
25,000 Portland
20,000 Clvlnd
72,500 Toronto
26,000 Denver (I'm not sure,,, anyone have a reaonable number?)
5,000 Laguna
??,??? Vegas (Start of race attendance or towards end attendance??)
I didnt catch a few, the 2 Canada races were in the 60,000's I assume? Monterrey was close to 75,000? Mex City over 100,000!
I have to say that I am surprised at the IRL figures, I'd heard some of those, but not all of them. The Motegi and Chicago numbers are really surprising to me.

Other CC race day attendance:
Monterrey was 92,713
Mexico city was 212k
Surfer's was 107,321
Vancouver and Montreal they were in the 60Ks on race day, but TO is in Canada too.
Denver - I'm going by memory, but I believe was ~40k race day but they did announced a 112k weekend.

Vegas was a write-off. I think there were suppose to be about 15k at the end, but recall the Busch race before hand. Maybe 10k showed up for CC? I didn't realize that Laguna was so poor, that's just nuts!! Are you sure that's right? RA has also been omitted, but I'm sure it was a poor number.

Last edited by Snrub; 21 Mar 2005 at 18:05.
Snrub is offline  
__________________
No Rotor, No Motor.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The war for Long Beach rush1 IRL Indycar Series 49 30 Apr 2004 02:43
IRL would not run Long Beach this year.... MolsonBoy ChampCar World Series 12 28 Jan 2004 17:10
long beach teal'c ChampCar World Series 5 22 Feb 2003 22:34
Long Beach Rambo ChampCar World Series 4 25 Jan 2002 12:18


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.