Is it really a GT? (still not the golf)

MichaelC · 2 Oct 2003, 23:15 (Ref:738617)

Just seen the pictures of the M3-engined mini in this week's Autosport. Is there somewhere I can learn more about this car, and it's claims to be a GT please? Thanks!

slicktsax · 2 Oct 2003, 23:41 (Ref:738639)

well it races in the BELCAR series. u might want to check the Belcar website only i'm afraid i don't remember what the web address is

MichaelC · 3 Oct 2003, 00:18 (Ref:738652)

Re my other post on the mini, it's set me thinking exactly what might be making an appearance in the British GTs as they appear to be letting anything in now.

So far as I understand it we've seen the following:

VW Golf
Morgan Aero 8
Lotus Sport Elise
Alfa GTV
Renault Sport Clio

Along with the hordes of TVRs, Porsches and Ferraris, which belong there. Solely for my own interest, what else would technically be allowed?

Audi TT? Audi RS6? Ford RS Focus? Toyota MR2? Mercedes SLK?
Any or all of those? Anything else? What about older stuff - if I rolled up with say an Escort RS Cosworth, would I be allowed in? I'm not taking the pi

s, it's a serious question on how far the rules can be taken.

I honestly don't know the rules, so if someone who does can indulge me, I'd appreciate it - thanks!

gttouring · 3 Oct 2003, 00:24 (Ref:738656)

Easy- the rules should now state the cars (GT not GTS)
should be driven to the event from a distance of no less than 30 miles. so they must be street legal and driven to the event and driven out. then the real question as to what is a GT car would be open and easily identified and GTS would stand as the real racers.

SALEEN S7R · 3 Oct 2003, 00:31 (Ref:738660)

The offical website address is. www.belcar.com but the site isnt in English im afraid.

Hope thats of some use to u.

slicktsax · 3 Oct 2003, 02:17 (Ref:738693)

well there is also www.dailysportscar.net but u need a subscription to access their articles and pictures i'm afraid and tehy do have one of the best info and pic websites

rdjones · 3 Oct 2003, 06:45 (Ref:738849)

IMO the Morgan is a Sports Car.

cybersdorf · 3 Oct 2003, 08:36 (Ref:738973)

The Golf is legal under the GT Championship regulations. Therefore, it is a GT.
Why bother with such petty distinctions - they should simply open such races for "performance cars". Who cares if they have 4 doors and 6 cupholders, as long as they're fast.

kdr · 3 Oct 2003, 09:46 (Ref:739023)

i have no problem with these "performance cars" competing...but why can't they compete in a series designed for them? then leave the sportscars to race amongst themselves.

if you build it...they will come.

MichaelC · 3 Oct 2003, 11:18 (Ref:739162)

I don't doubt that the Golf is a GT. And I know the Morgan is a Sportscar - I live half a mile from the Morgan factory!

It's just odd to see such things together. To me GT racing is what you see at Le Mans, or ALMS. I'm not quite sure where a golf, clio or a modeo fit into that!

But we've already had this debate, so no need for a re-run.

cntmunky · 3 Oct 2003, 11:34 (Ref:739188)

The gt championship here is turning into a joke. It is known that the clio 172 is faster than a v6, because of the v6 handles like **** on ice. And as for the Alfa it looks like a marshal turned up and put a few stickers on it. Interestingly the SEATs pole would qualify midfield for the GT's. Are these GT's too?

spanner · 3 Oct 2003, 12:30 (Ref:739260)

Talking about the Alfa, it does seem to have run in most series this year! watching it though, it did seem to have a strange setup, the ride height seemed bigger than 4x4 and the front end was pointing skyward. I'd have though it would have been better to run it as low as possible.

**Aysedasi** · 3 Oct 2003, 12:49 (Ref:739281)

I have absolutely no comment. And I'm being 100% serious.

jase · 3 Oct 2003, 12:59 (Ref:739293)

There will be 4 VX220's next year and a couple of other new cars not seen this year, so the cup class is looking promising.

cntmunky, the series IS NOT a joke, a lot of hard work goes into running the series, the teams are all professional in their outlook, there maybe cars that don't fit your definition of what a GT is, but hey, it ain't your decision.

If the series was that bad - Amateur & Mickey Mouse I think you called it in the SCV8 thread, we wouldn't be sending teams and drivers to Le Mans/FIA-GT/Bathurst/PLM/Sebring/Daytona, need I continue??

If you don't like the championship, fine, but please stop knocking a good championship.

cntmunky · 3 Oct 2003, 13:07 (Ref:739301)

I am not slagging off the teams, I know people in serveral of the teams and they are all good teams, and many have given a lot of young drivers a second life.

However, it just seems this year that any car can enter just to boost the grids. Would be ok if it was Belcar, but its a GT championship and I wouldnt expect the Alfa/Clio etc (tourers wanting to be GTs) at Le Mans.

**Aysedasi** · 3 Oct 2003, 13:10 (Ref:739306)

I think Jason is right. I may have been fairly forthright in the past about what I think a GT is or isn't, but that doesn't necessarily detract from a good series.

Fab · 3 Oct 2003, 13:22 (Ref:739318)

Not quite the thread, but who remembers the superb Alfa Romeo Montreal ? I think it's a early 70' car...

Any pic of it "alive" on the track ? Din't it make the GT races in the 70' in USA ?

Andy Zarse · 3 Oct 2003, 13:32 (Ref:739337)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fab
Not quite the thread, but who remembers the superb Alfa Romeo Montreal ? I think it's a late 70', early 80' car...

Late sixties early seventies I think Fab. A graet car but it was terribly unreliable.

BTW, let's have a proper debate about about the M3 and its ilk racing at Le Mans. I don't think this has been discussed here before... LOL

**Dani Filth** · 3 Oct 2003, 14:35 (Ref:739442)

i love the Montreal .. and i think it looks great ... very speacial looking Alfa ..

**Aysedasi** · 3 Oct 2003, 16:31 (Ref:739549)

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Zarse
.

BTW, let's have a proper debate about about the M3 and its ilk racing at Le Mans. I don't think this has been discussed here before... LOL

What a great idea.

Shall I start?

(I really am joking.....

)

pirenzo · 3 Oct 2003, 16:36 (Ref:739554)

OK. The M3 stretched the GT thing a bit far, but i'm sorry, a Mini is not a GT.

I think there should be a Pointlessly Powerful Mini World Series (PPMWS) series, where these sorts of Mini monstrosities can reside.

Muttley · 3 Oct 2003, 18:12 (Ref:739646)

I have to ask, in whose's definition can a MINI be described in any way as a GT car??

While the series should accept as many cars as possible, I'd hate to see it turn into a multi class accept all series like BelCar (I like BelCar BTW).

The Alfa put on a good show at Brands, while it may have been slow, the potential os there.

The M3, is it a GT? IMO no, but it has been accepted as such in the ALMS so does fit a loose definition (has 4 wheels and 2 doors), but by that reasoning, so does the mini, so we're back to where we started.

Bob Riebe · 3 Oct 2003, 18:56 (Ref:739691)

There is one place, I know of, with pictures of the competition Montreal.
Unfortunately I deleted all history so I cannot give you the address but if you put "Tony Mezzacca" in the google brower, the page should be listed.
He was a motorsports photog.
I saw it run at R. Am., it was interesting.

Muppet · 3 Oct 2003, 19:39 (Ref:739724)

Quote:

Originally posted by Muttley
I have to ask, in whose's definition can a MINI be described in any way as a GT car??

Ask Chris Mount and/or the BRDC.

He's the British GT championship scrutineer.

Zandbak · 3 Oct 2003, 19:45 (Ref:739735)

Well the MINI isn't a GT, it is Touring Car with something extra. The problem is the name of the series, British GT. When you call yourself GT I expect the following things: Porsche,Marcos, TVR, Ferrari, Viper, Saleen, Lambo.............

To solve this years image-problem, change the name of the series

That doesn't mean I don't like the Belcar Mini........it is one of my favourites.

Some links to the Belcar Mini on my page and spot the difference between 2002 and 2003:

2003
http://www.zandbak.net/2003/zolder24/002.jpg
http://www.zandbak.net/2003/bc110503/126.jpg
http://www.zandbak.net/2003/bc130403/010.jpg

2002
http://home.zonnet.nl/reijnders16/in...271002/016.jpg
http://home.zonnet.nl/reijnders16/in...lder24/009.jpg
http://home.zonnet.nl/reijnders16/in...210402/028.jpg

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