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18 Mar 2005, 15:23 (Ref:1255245) | #1 | ||
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If you were Long Beach why would you sign on with CCWS next year!
Just thinking about the LBGP this year and how we are so close and really only 11 drivers confirmed. Interesting to read the bottom of the article of the comment from LBGP.
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Edmon...963873-sun.html Why if you are the LBGP would you sign on again with CCWS for next year. The delays in finding teams and drivers must be frustrating for LBGP. It is hard to market with only a few stars left. Disorganization seems to be the flavor for CCWS. Once this race is over if they took the IRL they could begin marketing for next year using Andretti, Ganassi, Penske real players in the racing industry and these names, more importantly, would resonate with the fans. I am a CCWS fan but must say it is becoming tougher and tougher to keep saying that. Last edited by sgjb; 18 Mar 2005 at 15:25. |
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18 Mar 2005, 15:47 (Ref:1255263) | #2 | |
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I have to agree with you - if I was organising Long Beach I would, reluctantly, invite the IndyCars over.
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18 Mar 2005, 16:05 (Ref:1255280) | #3 | ||
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The link isn't working anymore.
I don't think there's a substantial advantage by either series in the driver recognition respect. In terms of LBGP organizers' frustrations regarding not knowing the exact lineup, the most important people have been declared as part of the lineup. If I was the LBGP organizers I wouldn't want to risk switching from something that's been successful to something that doesn't automatically gaurenty the same results. In terms of names, the IRL teams probably have more name recognition. Of the general public, how many of them care about the teams? I'd suggest few. No one goes out to a race because they'd psyched that Ganassi is running a team in the IRL. It's about the drivers. In terms of teams "resonating with fans," I think Paul Newman wins the Joe Public appeal contest hands down. Last edited by Snrub; 18 Mar 2005 at 16:06. |
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18 Mar 2005, 17:36 (Ref:1255353) | #4 | ||
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If, that's an IF, the race ever goes to the other series, then I doubt it would be as popular as the Champ Car race.
Its tradition, and it's been a CART race since, '84. Long beach is my favourite street circuit, along with a few others, and I feel it's an important part of Champ Car, and it's history, similar to Milwaukee. Last edited by luke; 18 Mar 2005 at 17:39. |
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18 Mar 2005, 17:46 (Ref:1255359) | #5 | |
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I don't think it would damage attendance.
Most people go for the event at Long Beach, rather than the series. |
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18 Mar 2005, 18:34 (Ref:1255384) | #6 | |||
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The Toyota Grand prix of Long beach has been a Champ Car race since '84. The majourity of the fans are Champ Car fans, that go to the event, and it's maintained a loyal fan base. Last edited by luke; 18 Mar 2005 at 18:35. |
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18 Mar 2005, 18:27 (Ref:1255381) | #7 | ||
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sgjb, perhaps you should stop saying that.
Once the final numbers and final driver-team placements are determined; all info will be provided, probably just a week before the race. That would serve to keep the interest very high. I think there will be some very promising new drivers and numbers(more than 18). CBS&NBC have reconized the devout core of (real) fans willing to part with thier own money and buy tickets and figure there must be something to it. Look for a lot of new sponsers. |
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18 Mar 2005, 18:37 (Ref:1255389) | #8 | |||
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18 Mar 2005, 19:36 (Ref:1255431) | #9 | ||
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I think that if Long Beach turns into an IRL race, then the Grand Prix will have a very tough time filling the seats. Like luke said, the people who go to LB are loyal Champ Car fans, so they would not like the change at all. Moreover, given the crappy attendance that Fontana gets, I doubt that there are a great number of serious IRL fans in Southern California.
One thing that can be said about CC events over IRL races... people show up. |
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19 Mar 2005, 00:25 (Ref:1255628) | #10 | ||
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Personally i do not believe that most (or even 30%) of attendance at Long Beach as well as total attendance for CC are "Loyal Champ Car fans". Loyal fans are imo people that at least follow most of the races. Tv-ratings suggest that less than 10% of total attendance follows most of the races. |
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19 Mar 2005, 07:35 (Ref:1255780) | #11 | ||
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So what are we basically saying here? Champ Car is gonna die and the IRL will win?
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19 Mar 2005, 07:59 (Ref:1255785) | #12 | ||
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NO NO NO!!!!!! I dont really have a side in this fight. I prefer dirt anyways....... But I sure do enjoy watching most of 30 OW races a year, and would miss it if one of the series shut the doors. What's expected, guessed, hope, could be, might be, maybe not, may not be, and just plain unlikely for ANY of us to guess what will really happen in the next few years is,,,,,,,,,,, who the heck knows??? Just hope LB waits until later in the season before they decide who to run next year. And hope more sponsors support the series,,,, so we never find out how much money is KK's limit until he says "lock the doors." |
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18 Mar 2005, 19:49 (Ref:1255438) | #13 | ||
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Up until very recently, I was suspicious that future LBGP's would feature F1. But it would appear that their current US track has invested quite alot of money in SAFER barriers, specific to F1, and they wouldn't have done so without assurance of a future.
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18 Mar 2005, 20:57 (Ref:1255478) | #14 | ||
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Having 2 F1 races in the US seems feasible, considering the country's size, and the fact that the country supported 2 (sometimes 3) races in the past.
Closer to the topic, I think a lot of circuits will be getting frustrated with ChampCars. A lot of places have been messed around and not given a definite date, let alone a definite idea of the field they are trying to promote. If the first few IRL road/street races go well and are well-attended, Long Beach would be well-advised to switch |
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18 Mar 2005, 22:10 (Ref:1255530) | #15 | ||
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I don't know how well attended the thing will be if it's CCWS or IRL. But it's true that Champ Car must improve in "knowing who the hell is driving". Perhaps having one or two events before the Long Beach race itself would help.
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18 Mar 2005, 22:24 (Ref:1255540) | #16 | ||
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Boots, aside from Indy, how many "well attended races has IRL had?" . I'm just curious I don't know of any, how about if we only count tickets solde, not given away.
You need to rember California is a True "Blue state" BTW, : INDY tickets and rooms are plentyfull any time . Wasn't the case a few years ago. ...I'm wondering how lmuch longer the Hulman famley will let the money hemorage while T.G. pushes his "vision" |
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19 Mar 2005, 00:55 (Ref:1255647) | #17 | ||
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Oh no... stop it, three weeks before the season opener starts I d'ont like to hear all this negative stuff anymore... the last months we heard tons of it... gentlemen start your engines and talk about the drivers, teams etc... this year we will have great pack of good drivers on the grid!
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19 Mar 2005, 01:04 (Ref:1255652) | #18 | ||
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Beat me to it Roninho!
carsten66, three weeks before the season opener and we are still not sure of who will be driving for who - or even what teams will be there for sure. I would wager the IRL is not bleeding out $$ nearly as fast as OWRS. |
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19 Mar 2005, 02:34 (Ref:1255690) | #19 | |||
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I'm still tired of it, every year the same proceedre, come on let's talk about racing!!!!!!!! |
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19 Mar 2005, 02:50 (Ref:1255694) | #20 | ||
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19 Mar 2005, 05:33 (Ref:1255736) | #21 | |
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Since I lean towards the biz threads, money, and attendance debates,,,, I have some of the numbers from both OW series for the past few years writen down ....
2003 CART (these were on forums,, and people said higher or lower until CART fans AND the IRL fans stated they were correct!!!) 40,000 St Pete (Remember that number when ever the IRL runs there) 68,000 LB 26,000 Miami (except the promoter said 14,000 under oath) 30,000 Mid O 30,000 Cleve 25,000 RA 25,000 Mlwk 30,000 Denver 30,000 Portland 25,000 Laguna 2003 IRL (I didnt watch enough of them or lurk the boards to get the numbers. However,, everyone seems to agree that attendance has been steady at a few,, and gone up most places. ) 2004 IRL 30,000 Homestead 65,000 Motegi 250,000 Indy 85,000 Texas (I think it's a few thousand to high) 42,000 Richmond 50,000 Kansas ??,??? Nashville (40's I think ??????) 38,000 Mlwk 58,000 Kentucky ??,??? Pikes Peak (High 30's or low 40's I think??????) 60,000 Chicago 75,000 Texas 2004 OWRS 65,000 LB 28,000 Mlwk 25,000 Portland 20,000 Clvlnd 72,500 Toronto 26,000 Denver (I'm not sure,,, anyone have a reaonable number?) 5,000 Laguna ??,??? Vegas (Start of race attendance or towards end attendance??) I didnt catch a few, the 2 Canada races were in the 60,000's I assume? Monterrey was close to 75,000? Mex City over 100,000! Where I think a lot of people think street courses look full and there are "millions" of people there,, the ovals have the large 100,000 NASCAR fan grandstand that leaves a LOT of leg room for half capacity to spread out in. Street course stands LOOK GREAT on tv,, but they only hold 2500 people, not the 100,000 like an oval does. Thats why I "think" people get mixed up with how many fans show up to a track???? Of course,, the money side,, ovals are fixed cost, a lil bump for race weekend... Where street courses take a LOT of money to set-up and tear down. Attendance can be lower at an oval and everyone can make a lil money,, where a street course takes higher attendance and sponsorship to make back the costs. To the topic,,,,,,, The BIG thing for street courses are the sponsors. Hospitality, signage, sponsorship, purchase tickets to give away, VIP guests, the rooms with food and bars (what are they called?) for large corporations to entertain guests, ad space in the program, etc. THIS YEAR with so many things yet to be announced I wouldnt think LB has any money coming in, except SC TOY Dealers and King Taco, and ticket sales. I havnt heard if a Mexican beer will be there??? So it doesnt look to good for impressing LB this year?? Currently the IRL has all the big sponsors, the engine mnftrs, large teams, guests, spending money at the track and in LB at restaurants, hotels, rental cars and such,, and LB can promote Penske and Andretti and Cheep and Foyt. Just like in the CART days. So,, I dont think LB will hastily decide to do anything until they see what OWRS gets for corporate sponsors,, towards the end of the season. If it isnt looking to good,, LB would be foolish not to switch. Good grief this was long. Sorry! Last edited by Electrocuted; 19 Mar 2005 at 05:40. |
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21 Mar 2005, 18:02 (Ref:1258157) | #22 | |||
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Other CC race day attendance: Monterrey was 92,713 Mexico city was 212k Surfer's was 107,321 Vancouver and Montreal they were in the 60Ks on race day, but TO is in Canada too. Denver - I'm going by memory, but I believe was ~40k race day but they did announced a 112k weekend. Vegas was a write-off. I think there were suppose to be about 15k at the end, but recall the Busch race before hand. Maybe 10k showed up for CC? I didn't realize that Laguna was so poor, that's just nuts!! Are you sure that's right? RA has also been omitted, but I'm sure it was a poor number. Last edited by Snrub; 21 Mar 2005 at 18:05. |
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21 Mar 2005, 19:50 (Ref:1258266) | #23 | ||
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The Laguna number is a fact. Sorry. Thanks for the other numbers! NOT wanting to start "the same old debate" again,,,, but there were a few forum posters that said things were slow Friday and Saturday at Denver,, and all of a sudden there's over 100,000 for the weekend. Most dont think thats an accurate figure for the people there..... if ya know what I mean. Anyway's,,,,, I'm remembering 30,000 stated from somewhere?? Oh well,,, anywhere between 30 and 40 thousand is a good OW race number. BTW, this is a great site. Can discuss numbers, drivers, and races without all the non-sense name calling and flames like at other boards..... thanks everyone! |
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21 Mar 2005, 22:07 (Ref:1258394) | #24 | ||
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21 Mar 2005, 22:46 (Ref:1258430) | #25 | |||
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