History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[911thillclimber]

Right...
I've trawled through every scrap of paper I have on this soap opera:
I've found the tele numbers for Alan, for JohnS and Dennis(!)

I think I've tried the one for Dennis before only to draw a blank and a slightly irritated lady on the other end.
Will try Alan and John over the weekend assuming they are there and willing to talk.
Spanners crossed.

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

I've found the tele numbers for Alan, for JohnS and Dennis(!).

Is the John S John Schneider, or John Sabourin? As a bear of very little brain, I'm getting confused!

[911thillclimber]

Mr Schneider no less. It was hard catching him in 2 years ago..

[911thillclimber]

Comments from phone calls over the years this quest has been unfolding are not always consistent from peoples memories.

I have a comment from Alan H that reads ADA did the front end and that the note I wrote infers in the same breath that ADA put the Hart in from TD's 490 to the 'Dennis 492'.

Is Chris Crawford/ADA still about? Cannot find him/them on google except Chris's exploits in Group C etc.
Chris obviously had the means to convert the car with his eyes closed.

A name linked to the ownership of the donor 492 is a Tony Baskill. Does he ring a bell with anyone please?

This period in the car's life is a real pack of cards...well shuffled.
If I can get to these people maybe some order will follow.

[Demolition Den]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

Comments from phone calls over the years this quest has been unfolding are not always consistent from peoples memories.

I have a comment from Alan H that reads ADA did the front end and that the note I wrote infers in the same breath that ADA put the Hart in from TD's 490 to the 'Dennis 492'.

Is Chris Crawford/ADA still about? Cannot find him/them on google except Chris's exploits in Group C etc.
Chris obviously had the means to convert the car with his eyes closed.

A name linked to the ownership of the donor 492 is a Tony Baskill. Does he ring a bell with anyone please?

This period in the car's life is a real pack of cards...well shuffled.
If I can get to these people maybe some order will follow.

My name is Dennis Humphries,ex Demolittion Den. I understand someone wants to talk to me, please contact me on 0034 96 647 0638 or 0034 659 778 256 in Spain. e-mail francine.den@gmail.com.

[911thillclimber]

OK....

Just spoken to a very helpful Alan Humberstone.
My number for Dennis is a dead end.
My call to John Sch has no answer, so will try later this weekend.

Alan H himself changed all the parts from the 490 to the 492 inc the Hart engine. The chassis then went to John and Tony for the Ghia body.
The Turbo RS 200 engine was built by Mountune and installed instead of the Hart by Vic Lee.
The turbo was not right, so the installation was finished by Tony Baskerville.

He said that 'Dennis Humphries' rang a bell as the seller of the 492 and that Dennis did not race it ('he was not allowed to') but confirmed he did race FF2000. The seller came from Whitstable (Alan has said this to me on the first conversation 2 years ago). I think Herne/Herne Bay/Whitstable are all the 'same' place.

The 492 had the orange body in gel coat and it WAS the original orange body from the factory. Alan was VERY sure of this.
This colour is a rare colour and off the factory list there are only 5 cars made with Orange bodywork.

HU 3, a 490 the famous Kelly girl car which I know Bob has in Canada. Hello Bob if you are still reading this!

# 17(GB), # 22(USA Haas), # 32(USA Haas), #42(USA Haas) all 492's.

The crunch is my car has the large tube rear frame. I'm told that this factory change came in the middle of the 100 cars, so that really crosses out 17/22/32

This leaves HU 42, an orange car sold originally to HAAS who bought a lot of 492s, 47 of them in fact!! Must have been the Lola dealer for the USA?

I'm off now to check the USA Lola Register....

This fills in a lot of holes, but I want to check if the tube size change chassis info is correct. The man who told me has run these cars for years, really knows his 492's and has the factory drgs for tub repairs too.
He is responsible for encouraging me to get one!

An interesting afternoon.


Clive: one of the HU numbers above has a B after the number like the one I showed you. I'll find out what that means from the Lola Heritage site. I think it is big tank etc but not sure. It is the only 'B' on the sales list.

This only gets better, and deeper.

[bob k.]

Graham, yes I am still following your efforts to find your chassis number but must add a few things. the Divina car was HU4 not 3 as you state. HU3/B was not supplied as a sports 2000 spec car but was delivered to Heini Hadar in Switzerland for hill climbing duties. According to Bob Marston the B designation was used to denote running gear based on other models such as FA T360 and sports car T210 including cast front mag uprights in place of the s2000 steel ones

keep up the hunt

cheers bob k.

[911thillclimber]

Just a thought.
Back in #997 of this thread (weave?) Clive asked if the 492 tub had been given the HU6 plate.
In the pic above of the car without the Ghia roll cage but the Lola cage there is no chassis plate...
In the pics of the build with the full Ghia cage there is a plate...

I've zoomed in to max on the above pic and there seems no plate.

[MagnetON]

SOmething that may be relevant, I've just approved a post that now appears as #1130

[911thillclimber]

Sending you an email Dennis!
Graham.

Not sure I will sleep tonight until Dennis replies, I hope soon.
Cannot believe he has made contact. Someone is helping me out there!

Bob: I am sorry, you are right, it is HU4.

[911thillclimber]

Spoke to a very very helpful Dennis Humphries this afternoon.

The mystery continues.

Dennis does not know the chassis number as the car was not with him long.

The car was bought by Dennis and a friend from a farmer in Sussex who had two race cars in the farm he had just bought. This was 1985.

Dennis bought them both, the Lola and the Clubmans car.
The Clubmans sold first and the Lola was sold to Harry Humberstone.

The car was bog standard with a Pinto etc and a burnt orange original body. Dennis described it as very nice and in great condition.

Kindly, Dennis has asked a few people who he knew then who might know about the car's history but none recall the previous owner etc or the chassis number.

So, the mystery continues, but I have another avenue underway that might help.

If nothing else it has bought a smile to Dennis' face as he has now contacted some who he has not talked to for a while, and interestingly, a few people had told him about a small article that has just appeared in the Herne Bay Gazette! (good idea Clive).

In conclusion then there are few options now left to me.

The car is one of the 100 made and one of only 5 Orange bodied cars.
It has a large tube rear frame and (I'm re-checking) this factory change was made in around HU40 ish of the 100 build.

If I can get the chassis number this mod was introduced I think I know the chassis number as there is only one car with orange body/large tube made!

If all these dots join together then I can propose to Lola this car's claim to that number.
I feel they will want to see proof of the car's line back from Dennis and the Farmer in Sussex who is definitely not a motorsport man, but the previous possibly was.

This all was in 1985.
The car would be just 7 years old and it was in great condition so possibly was in action up to this point?

Here we still are!

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

Just a thought.
Back in #997 of this thread (weave?) Clive asked if the 492 tub had been given the HU6 plate.
In the pic above of the car without the Ghia roll cage but the Lola cage there is no chassis plate...
In the pics of the build with the full Ghia cage there is a plate...

I've zoomed in to max on the above pic and there seems no plate.

This has got me a bit puzzled. Are you saying that there seemed to be no plate there when the car was bought by AH, then one was added (or put in position but never affixed?) and then later on removed again?

I'm glad the Dennis Humphries lead has paid off. Did Dennis say where found the cars for sale - I'm wondering if it's worth braving the snow to fetch the '85 Autosports out of the garage!

[911thillclimber]

Dennis sounded a great bloke. This little car had slipped his memory at first hence him getting in touch with a few old mates before getting in touch with me. Says a lot I think.
One of those friends is reading this thread!

The cars were found in a farm recently bought by the seller, so they were left there somehow by the previous farmer or the farm used to store the cars for someone.(?)

He said during the conversation the farm was in Hastings, in Brighton and in Sussex. I think it was Brighton personally, but he was not too sure exactly as the cars were found by a friend of his, he went along to see them.

I think the car is absolutely right when bought, the car had a number and then alan converted the car so a whole lot of parts were removed and not used.

The converted 'Dennis Car' went to Tony and John for the Ghia body, the car then to Vic Lee for the big turbo engine and Alan raced it once at Brands.
The car had a plate while at Tony and John as the pictures show but then lost the plate somewhere along the way, goodness knows where.

I need to contact John Sch if I can but I asked him last time about the number and his memory is about as good as mine...

The car and Alan's Suzuki were sold to Brian Davis where it languished until Mike bought it then me.

I have a firm opinion I know the car's number now but I need proof.

Getting the proof has started and it is in the USA I'm looking.

Dennis was just the owner for a few weeks between the Farmer and Harry H buying it.

All a bit of a let down, but facts nevertheless!

[oneofapair]

This is probably a red herring that Clive Brown might be able to assist with?? A slightly tentative thought/link? Wasn't John Homewood a farmer,he certainly had motor racing interest. Where was he based ??

John Woods

[Clive Brown]

Curiously, this thought had crossed my mind, too. Even more curiously, once he'd finished with Special Saloons, he raced a Sports 2000, but it was a new car (I think it might have been a Tiga, rather than a Lola, but I'm far from certain).

However, his car was yellow from new, his farm was at Charing in Kent, and it had been in his family for some years....

[Dan Rear]

John Homewood bought a new Tiga, SC79, for the '79 S2000 season here. It was yellow, backed by Godfrey(Geoffrey??) Hill Integral. A chap called Ken Battle had a T492 early that year, is his surname justa coincidence?

[Clive Brown]

It was Godfrey Hill Integral, a gearbox remanufacturing company owned by Brian Godfrey Hill, which had earlier sponsored the Special Saloon Imps of both John Homewood and Fred Hendy.

[Clive Brown]

What have we learned from the long sought-after unearthing of Dennis Humphries? Well, quite a lot actually. We now know that when Dennis acquired the car in 1985, it was complete, had original orange bodywork, and had been run in Class B of the domestic British thundersports series. I believe Dennis described it as bog standard.

Therefore, the next area to research is just how many people raced S2000 spec. T492s in Thundersports in the early to mid eighties? Can't be that many, and even this field is narrowed considerably by the fact that the car we are interested in most probably raced with factory orange bodywork, which was rare for a T490/2.

So Dennis's input is quite illuminating; at long last we have someone else who actually had the donor car for the repair of the wrecked HU6, and moreover, can add to its history. The search continues....

[chunterer]

Great isn't it!

Bit of a headache for 911 though!!

[Nordic]

If someone in Brighton had a S2000 and clubmans car, its possible that someone within Brighton motor club would know them.

Is it possible the cars were stored/hidden for somone outside the area and the farmer was just a middle man?

Driftwood is also local to the Brighton area I think. Seems progress has been made at least.

[911thillclimber]

Thank godness for Clive!
Talk about keeping me going.
After the call to Dennis I felt I had a lot more connection to the car and that all the thoughts were true!
Clive has the knack of stopping me simply letting it go.

I do also thank the people who keep this going and reading it. The 100,000 hits mark is broken and this means lot are enjoying the roller coaster, so this little car is entertaining many resting (hibernating?) on axle stands in my garage!
Nordik: I'm on the email after this to them!

Clive is of course right.

There is a fresh line to follow now we know so much detail and getting back to the car's first buyer is only 7 years and still in living memory.

I have emailed HAAS in the USA to see if they have record of the sale of HU 42, the only orange bodied T 492 with large rear frame to be made.

Hard to see the car all new going to the USA and getting back in time for all this action. HAAS took 47 of the 100 cars built.

With everyone's help i will get what i need, simply the truth about the number.
The car is quite worthless as it stands.
It could only be used for two series, the hillclimbs and the Special Saloons with the Ghia body back on it! This is not about £££ but completing the car.

I'm in this to the end, please keep the Faith!!

I actually dreamt about this thing last night, the first time ever, and while polishing the car I heard a light rattle..
Following this rattle i looked (somehow) into the side pod that the chassis plate fits on and inside, dropped in there through a small access hole was the chassis plate....

Men in White Coats arriving soon.

Here is the chassis plate we are looking for, just to the right of the round tin on the far side side pod.:

[911thillclimber]

Had an email from my tame T 492 expert (he has one and runs a few others) and confirms that # HU46 and HU44 have large tube rear frames.
Cars in the HU 30's have small tube (his own is small tube and a 30's number)

He suggests that the change was HU 40 to 42 and has given me a contact in Lola itself to get this confirmed off their drawings!

[Clive Brown]

On the face of it, the car does seem to be HU42. So who bought it from Haas (was it supplied to order?), and how did it get back to the UK?

Now the downside. Driving standards at least in British S2000 were, err, sometimes a little robust. I know a dirty story about how a certain competitor renowned for his forceful tactics met his comeuppance, to the terminal detriment of his Lola's monocoque. So the fact that a car has the later big-tubed engine frame does not necessarily mean that it was so fitted when originally supplied by the factory. Similarly, the body on the car that Dennis acquired was not necessarily that with which it left the factory.

Finally, if the car had been in some way concealed when it resided in the barn in Sussex, would it not make sense to remove its chassis plate? It would then be logical for AH to have transferred the plate across from HU6 when he transferred the components onto the donor car from the wreck. If this is so, it doesn't however explain what happened to the plate subsequently.

One door closes, and another slams in your face!

Oh, and doesn't the 420R look good in the back of your car....

[911thillclimber]

Totally correct except for the last bit, it would sound like a FF1600 I recon...

Engine would be worth a fortune now, £20K+?

Should have bought that RS 500 engine and FT 200 that Mike had in the car when i first went down to see it.
Driftwood keep telling me that.

HASS bought these car in batches, one lot was an order for 8.
I cannot see a new car being bought, raced a while and then shipped over to the UK.
As you say, the chassis plate is there during the Tony/John rebuild as per pics, then is gone.
There are mods to the tub just behind the front wheel like large access holes all carefully done.
No t 492 had these (about 36 sq inches big) so why were they done?
Most odd mod to the side pontoons and patina looks just like the original panels.

[spd(john)]

Hi Graham,

Just a thought it might be worth having a long chat with John Jones, (he with the the Cosworth Pilbeam), his memory and knowledge of motor racing defies belief, also he is a farmer with very widespread connections.

Keep up the search as it keeps us all captivated on a cold winters night.

John