Cosworth Done Deal

[maximumpower]

Mark C (fact!) has just posted that KK and Forsythe have a 50/50 split in cosworth.

[Phoenix1]

It's great news and with mean a financially secure engine now and into the future rather than a potential punishing dog fight between two series for an engine.

Long term although KK and Forsythe own Cosworth rather than Champ Car owning Cosworth I think that both sides will benifit. Champ Car in that money will come in from anything from Historic DFV engines to current F1 (Red Bull and Minardi. Coupling these factors you have one high tecnology test bed of F1 and a controlled enviroment of Champ Car. Could Champ Car begin to use the F1 engine when the current engines reach the end of there shelf life rather than build parts for two simular platformed series.

Further to that if it was the case would Champ Car become the American F1 or be in danger of becoming the main feeder series for F1. I know drivers leave Champ Car for F1 now but would it become a GP2 style formula?!

What ever happens well done to KK and Forsythe this has been a great year for them saving Champ Car and Cosworth, whats the third wonder? Maybe Champ Car presents Williams?! (I wish!) You have to wonder what state motorsports upper level would be in without them around. Lets hope it filters down to grass root racing as well.

[Snrub]

For the sceptics: http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31571

So is it 50/50 control or ownership or both?

BTW: KK will be on WT Thursday.

[macdaddy]

IMO, this is great news, nomatter how you slice it!

[Amar7605]

It looks like that they are lining things up to be a self-sufficient series of sorts. They aren't gonna take $#!* from any car manufaturer anymore.

[macdaddy]

Is Ford still going to be badging next year's engines?
Are they still going to be "Presenting Sponsor" of the series?

[sgjb]

To me the most significant part of this deal is the faith it must mean that these fellows still have in motorsport. It gives me further confidence that Champcar will be around for along time. I don't think they would have gotten deeper into motorsport unless they were still committed.

[Kicking-back]

Cosworth is a business, and a supplier to Champ Car.

The fact they have common ownership does not mean that Cosworth is a part of Champ Car.

It is good news, but they won't damage Cosworth to prop up Champ Car.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by macdaddy
Is Ford still going to be badging next year's engines?
Are they still going to be "Presenting Sponsor" of the series?

I don't think we have an official announcement, but there have been some indications such as Ford saying that they're happy with thier current American racing interests. Everything at the moment that I've seen seems to point to a similar roll or more (it was suggested that they might pretty much cover the CBS costs) next year.

[Dov]

K-b, of course KK and GF don't want to jeopardize Cosworth, however, imo, the 'main' reason they made this deal was so they could secure Champ Cars future. I don't think that things will remain status quo at Cosworth under KK and GF, in fact, the business will improve!

[macdaddy]

Two good reads on the ChampCar homepage:
Statement from ChampCar
Press conference transcript

As we go forward, Cosworth will be an engine developer for the supporting series of the Champ Car World Series. Cosworth will develop affordable engines for our ladder series.

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by macdaddy
Is Ford still going to be badging next year's engines?
Are they still going to be "Presenting Sponsor" of the series?

Maybe Chevy will do it

[The Snout]

Affordable engines for the ladder is a brilliant move and one not even talked about. This deal not only gives them options in regard to CCWS and it's partner series, it also gives KK and GF 40 years of racing heritage with the name Cosworth recognised through the world.

[Dov]

I'm presuming that the Atlantic series will still use Toyota engines for at least one more year?!

[The Snout]

Yeah Dov, Cosworth need time to plan and develop any engines, plus businesswise they want to get a good solid plan in place as to how it works. I'd look for the Atlantics or whatever we have to be powered by Cosworth in 2006 and beyond.

[Dov]

Here's an interesting comment from, KK.

The engine has really done everything that we asked of it. We look forward with this pillar of Cosworth for the future for developing more racing engines for North America, including potentially those of our ladder series and also extending the capabilities of Cosworth into this very fast-growing sector called the tuner market, that generation of folks 16 and above, reaching to 60 in my case, but typically ending at about 30, of people who are dedicated fans of motor cars and wish to continue to improve them. While the brand of Cosworth is a wonderful platform to be able to provide tuner accessories for these folks, it is certainly something we will be extending.

[Snrub]

Dov if you read your link to the transcript you'd know that Toyota is still commited (they confirmed ~2 weeks ago) for 2005.

"Q. Kevin, there's a comment in the press release from Jaguar about the Champ Car ladder series development of engines. I take it to mean that Toyota is at some point on its way out, and when do you expect that a Cosworth engine will appear in series such as Atlantics?

KEVIN KALKHOVEN: Well, first of all, we are completely committed to Toyota for the 2005 season, so that is something that we will be doing.

We will examine the 2006 season and beyond and discuss the engines with a number of manufacturers. Of course, at this moment in time it's just too early to say."

They also say that Cosworth has a 250hp "kit" for the Focus. I'm not sure if that's for the 2.0 or 2.3L engine, but one would have to think that they could use that engine or a varient of that engine for Atlantics. Personally I think Star Mazda has it right. They use a production engine that will last tens of thousands of track miles. A question was also asked regarding a large stock of 3.0L n/a engines being used for a feeder series. I think that's possibly a terrific idea. The feeder series should have more in the ball park of ~400hp instead of 240hp. Perhaps they can make the 3.0Ls cheap enough? Another option is to use turbo Renesis engines.

[The Snout]

Dov, also Cosworth will have a supply of IRL spec engines hanging around after the 2005 IRL season. These could form the basis of a spec engine for a ladder series. Retune them a bit, make them more roadcourse friendly, and hey presto, they can be re-badged and we have spec cost contained engines for our feeder series.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by The Snout
Dov, also Cosworth will have a supply of IRL spec engines hanging around after the 2005 IRL season. These could form the basis of a spec engine for a ladder series. Retune them a bit, make them more roadcourse friendly, and hey presto, they can be re-badged and we have spec cost contained engines for our feeder series.

I was originally thinking F1 V10s, but that's a VERY interesting through. It's good marketing to say "our LADDER SERIES uses IRL engines." LOL!

[sgjb]

Originally posted by Snrub
"our LADDER SERIES uses IRL engines."

They can actually say their ladder series uses bigger motors than the IRL. Isn't the new IRL motor 2.5 litre now.

[Snrub]

It was 3.5L, now it's 3.0L.

[The Snout]

Have no idea if Chevy own the engines or if Cosworth own them and lease (if that's the right word) them to Chevy. But if the hardware is already built and it's just going to sit there post 2005, might as well assess their viability as a affordable feeder series powerplant.

Effectively, the IRL with it's road course testing currently can do the leg work for us in regards to it's suitability for the job.

[gttouring]

Solid solid news
Champcar, has good backing and no need to bend to a manufacturers whim, how excellent, and they can support the ladder series, and now Ford which has great ties to Cosworth has an even better "in" to market itself and re-invent the legend that Ford and cosworth are...
i can't really see anything bad out of this- other than the trepidation another manufacturer may show diving into the series, as it is owned and run by the guys who also control engine tech and development....
can we welcome Judd, and/or a proper formula? engine size and boost regs vs. static engine (ala 3.0 V10 or 3.0 V8 or 2.4 V8's and nothing else?)

[The Snout]

Probably to early to tell where exactly they'll take it GT. But as far as owned and run by the guys who also control engine tech and development. Well, the alternative was to have manufacturers involved and that has led to a collapse previously. IMO, that had a far worse consequence than any perceived conflicts.

They've bought an engine maker, I'd say that you won't see another maker in CCWS again. You may see manufaturers in again, at least one, or multiple of they are interested in the model of badging a Cosworth, or having a Cosworth block and being able to do some engineering of their own to it.

[LouisTheShark]

"It looks like that they are lining things up to be a self-sufficient series of sorts. They aren't gonna take $#!* from any car manufaturer anymore."

And the financial help/sponsorship that goes along with it. IMO, they just shot themselves in the foot. This is a sad day for Champ Car.